D&D 5E The power of smite

[FrogReaver]

I don't think Smite is overpowered.

I think it's about in the right place in 5E. It gets a disproportionate amount of attention simply because it's extremely impressive when it lands on a crit and just annihilates a monster, but I once tracked everyone's damage (and thus DPR because I also tracked fight round length) for several games, and he had a Pally, and he wasn't doing particularly high DPR, particularly not once overkill was taken into account.

So I'm definitely happy with Smite as is. It'll probably get totally unnecessarily nerfed in 1D&D though.

Often it is better to have on demand spikey damage than consistent damage even if it's higher averaged over time.

 

[Blue]

Actually, nevermind.

I laid out the damage expected from all four scenarios of misses, hits and crits in my post but I guess people just stopped at the first line and said I'm arguing in bad faith because it's a 1 in 400 chance the paladin does a lot of damage.

If people aren't going to respond to my entire post it's not much of a discussion anyway.

Since my first point is that you were ignoring a limited resource, something you just ignored in this response as well, I guess that claiming you aren't going to respond because people aren't addressing your whole post may be advice you may want to take to heart for yourself as well.

 

[FrogReaver]

Since my first point is that you were ignoring a limited resource, something you just ignored in this response as well, I guess that claiming you aren't going to respond because people aren't addressing your whole post may be advice you may want to take to heart for yourself as well.

I think there is a good counterpoint there. Spikiness matters, not just daily damage total divided by total combat rounds in the day. In that sense it is important to see how much damage can be achieved with the resources vs what other classes can do with resources.

 

[Oofta]

I think there is a good counterpoint there. Spikiness matters, not just daily damage total divided by total combat rounds in the day. In that sense it is important to see how much damage can be achieved with the resources vs what other classes can do with resources.

The devil is in the details though. That GWM barbarian can well do more damage in a single combat than the paladin because the opponents have low AC. That wizard can do more damage and kill more enemies if a lot of low dex monsters are always showing up in fireball formation while also getting a long rest whenever they want.

Sometimes I like having that ability to spike damage when the combat is going south. Other times I'd rather play that fighter that gets an action surge to do more damage or to have the option of doing something else cool in combat that requires an action.

 

[Stormonu]

Honestly, super-spike smites will only be a problem if the games is mostly combat and the only way for players to solve their problems, and generally against singular foes.

 

[Blue]

I think there is a good counterpoint there. Spikiness matters, not just daily damage total divided by total combat rounds in the day. In that sense it is important to see how much damage can be achieved with the resources vs what other classes can do with resources.

Sure, but that gets back to the other point, where he was asking us to compare against back-to-back crits. Since we can work to maximize them but not generate them, what was put forth was still not expected nova damage.

 

[NotAYakk]

I've tried to make high level Paladin cheese builds that rely on smite. Whenever I assumed a modest adventuring day, you got higher total damage from a BM XBE Fighter or a GWM Barbarian.

When I did strange stuff to optimize smiting, like Paladin 6/Hex 1-3/Sorcerer X, the baseline Paladin ended up doing more damage over the day thanks to Improved Smites.

It is uniquely able to inefficiently burn spell slots in a short fight to convert to damage. Like, a PAM Paladin 5+ can drop up to 3 smites per turn. And on a crit, it is very pretty.

The one build I still want to try out is Paladin 2/Bladesinger 11/Bearbarian 3. Basically it can use spell slots to fuel both offence and defence while raging; bladesinger can convert slots to reduce damage, Paladin to smites, and Bearbarian gives it advantage on attacks and resistance on damage. It is a bit silly of a build.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Different classes/builds will shine in different circumstances. Obvious, right?

It’s interesting to explore what those circumstances are, but pretty pointless to make conclusions about which is therefore “best” overall.

 

[Ancalagon]

I like watching the smile drop from the Rogue's face when he gets to only sneak attack once a round, whereas my 5th+ level paladin is dropping smites 2-3 times a round (if using an off-hand weapon or shield bash ).

Oooh. Paladin/Rogue (Arcane Trickster) ....hmm.

Aaaaand you can sustain that for 2-3 rounds? The rogue can go all day.

Again, it really depends on how many combat encounters per short rest the party has - or might have - to face.

 

[Stormonu]

Aaaaand you can sustain that for 2-3 rounds? The rogue can go all day.

Again, it really depends on how many combat encounters per short rest the party has - or might have - to face.

With 5MWD (which the current campaign I'm in has fallen into the trap of doing), not a problem.