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Dragonlance Dragonlance Adventure & Prelude Details Revealed

Over on DND Beyond Amy Dallen and Eugenio Vargas discuss the beginning of Shadow of ther Dragon Queen and provide some advice on running it.

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This epic war story begins with an invitation to a friend's funeral and three optional prelude encounters that guide you into the world of Krynn. Amy Dallen is joined by Eugenio Vargas to share some details about how these opening preludes work and some advice on using them in your own D&D games.


There is also information on the three short 'prelude' adventures which introduce players to the world of Krynn:
  • Eye in the Sky -- ideal for sorcerers, warlocks, wizards, or others seeking to become members of the Mages of High Sorcery.
  • Broken Silence -- ideal for clerics, druids, paladins, and other characters with god-given powers.
  • Scales of War -- ideal for any character and reveals the mysterious draconians.
The article discusses Session Zero for the campaign and outlines what to expect in a Dragonlance game -- war, death, refugees, and so on.

 

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One: I have answered you specifically many times, over many threads, over many months, but sure we can go over your list again.

Two: As noted, the fluff/lore, certainly points to an expectation in the MM irrespective to the existence of a Chaotic Evil, or Typically Chaotic Evil, classification. Again however, the topic is Alignment, not supportive writing regarding setting lore. That certainly would be a lot of work to rewrite. :)

So now, lets retread the topics you and I personally, directly, have discussed multiple times. If I miss a question, its not intentional, I was finishing cooking lunch and didnt want it to burn. ;)
Typically, when I've asked you these questions, you've ignored them...

Its a setting specific question, and the MM and Volos (books people commonly take exception with, but certainly not an exhaustive list of the problematic material Wizard's has published) have set things that way. Please also note, the MM objectively, specifically, and clearly, states there is no 'ALWAYS' and its up to the DM's discretion to follow a suggested Alignment.
And also please note that the MM only provides information that enforces the idea that a monster is evil. As I've said numerous times, if you want to play a particular monster in a different alignment, there's nothing in any of the book that supports you. Even though the MM says you can, every bit of information given for a monster fights against that option. That makes it not setting specific.

I'll give an example: harpies. Chaotic Evil. Their lore says Divine Curse, Harpy Song, Sadistic Cowards, and Gruesome Collectors. We can ignore Harpy Song for the moment, because that's just about their ability. It's the other three bits of lore that are important. This is in the Monster Manual, which is supposed to be setting agnostic. I should be able to use harpies in any official setting and any setting I homebrew.

If I make them not CE, then Sadistic Cowards and Gruesome Collectors stop making much sense. If I don't want harpies to have been created because an elf got angry and her evil curse backfired on her, then Divine Curse doesn't make sense. So anywhere from half to three-quarters of the monster entry is unusable, simply because I don't want them to be Evil. That puts a lot of effort on me to make them useful, a lot more than simply ignoring a monster. Any change to alignment is automatically a change to lore. If I want to have D&D harpies, as a species, that aren't evil, I need to show that they're not evil, not merely tell the players that.

Now compare to Level Up's treatment of harpies, which doesn't give harpies an alignment. Their lore includes Luring and Tracking, Artistic and Scholarly Inclination, and Nature's Intermediary. They hold grudges, make for good historians because of a rich oral history, and can predict the weather by tracking air currents. If you want your harpies to be Always Evil Kill On Sight, then literally the only thing you need to do is not have them play nicely with PC races. You can even keep the good historians bit and say they simply don't share their knowledge!

Ultimately though, much of the game is based on combat, the rules are certainly slanted towards combat, and as the game has been for decades (Tasha's being the point of direction change in my view) been that way, they (WotC) decided to give players and DM's creatures to fight without burdening the DM's with justification. As you say its a lot of work to write up the lore!
"You're attacked by vicious bandits who happen to be goblins" is no more difficult than "You're attacked by goblins."

And "you enter the lair of the vicious bandits to kill them" is heaps better than "you enter the lair of the goblins to kill them," because then the players and DM have to justify killing children and other non-combatants. Do your PCs kill them because they will grow up to be Evil goblins? Do they leave them alone to starve to death on their own, which should alter the PC's alignment? At least with a lair of vicious bandits who are goblins, you can logically write it so that there are no children or non-combatants there, or if there are, they're unwilling but have no ability to leave.

Although personally, I don't think DM laziness or lack of creativity is a good enough reason to include alignments.

I believe I covered this, but I dont want to be accused of skipping a question. Yes, the lore would indicate monsters are evil. It seems (to actually be on topic) that the lore around Black Robes ALSO points to them being either overwhelmingly evil, or completely evil as an organization. This would seem to make sense since you know, EVIL God, of EVIL Magic, being the patron of this NOT EVIL group...but....
I never asked about the Black Robes, and while I think the idea of alignment-restricted mage groups is stupid for a wide variety of reasons, it's an organization one chooses to join, not a race one is born into. Likewise, one chooses to be a vicious bandit.

Because, even a 'typically' rider, informs on the setting in question. Even Eberron, comes with assumptions around the specific cultures, the specific creatures, and monsters no?
Keith Baker said that D&D came with certain expectations he had to include in Eberron. While he didn't elaborate, I would not be surprised if that meant including alignment and those assumptions were things he was forced to include.

But you inadvertently made my point for me. Even in Eberron, we can't escape the idea that some races are intrinsically evil, because TSR/WotC decided that they had to have an evil alignment. Below you say "I still believe its far easier to say 'drop any assumptions you have around the NPC's or Monsters you encounter, this is a different setting'," but here you are admitting that's not the case.
 

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And also please note that the MM only provides information that enforces the idea that a monster is evil. As I've said numerous times, if you want to play a particular monster in a different alignment, there's nothing in any of the book that supports you. Even though the MM says you can, every bit of information given for a monster fights against that option. That makes it not setting specific.

Granted, there is nothing there that supports it, but you'll have to join us in the line of "people wanting Wizards to do more."

This is in the Monster Manual, which is supposed to be setting agnostic.

Even if this is a stated goal, I dont believe it to be the truth of the matter. There is in the murky depths, a default assumption, and it likely leans towards FR as that baseline, in 5e.

"You're attacked by vicious bandits who happen to be goblins" is no more difficult than "You're attacked by goblins."

Agreed, I'm not arguing against this...

And "you enter the lair of the vicious bandits to kill them" is heaps better than "you enter the lair of the goblins to kill them," because then the players and DM have to justify killing children and other non-combatants. Do your PCs kill them because they will grow up to be Evil goblins? Do they leave them alone to starve to death on their own, which should alter the PC's alignment? At least with a lair of vicious bandits who are goblins, you can logically write it so that there are no children or non-combatants there, or if there are, they're unwilling but have no ability to leave.

All of this can be written around, excluded, but regardless, my Goblins lean Chaotic, not evil, so its not a huge issue for me. Good characters, do not engage in genocide or wanton massacre of non-combatants.

I never asked about the Black Robes, and while I think the idea of alignment-restricted mage groups is stupid for a wide variety of reasons, it's an organization one chooses to join, not a race one is born into. Likewise, one chooses to be a vicious bandit.

Uhh..ok. So you are coming after me just to do so over Alignment re: race, instead of Alignment re: Black Robes, which was the topic at hand? Unsurprising at this point, but ok.

Even in Eberron, we can't escape the idea that some races are intrinsically evil, because TSR/WotC decided that they had to have an evil alignment. Below you say "I still believe its far easier to say 'drop any assumptions you have around the NPC's or Monsters you encounter, this is a different setting'," but here you are admitting that's not the case.

Those do not mesh.

1. WotC set's something as a default of Evil.
2. Eberron subverts expectation, based upon that default.
3. WotC, via MM Clause, objectively, clearly, states, I can do whatever I want with alignment.

So, no. I dont have to have an evil aligned 'X' at all.
 

So in your opinion the only acceptable alignment is Neutral Good?
In an extreme form, yes. For non-extreme characters in the game, no.
Did you tell your players in session 0 that the assumptions of the Monster Manual may not apply in an Eberron campaign?
Yes. I did. I specifically mentioned that Chromatic Dragons are as likely to be good as they are evil and that the same applies to Metallic Dragons when introducing the world for the first time. Either they forgot or, like I said earlier, old habits die hard. They saw a dragon and their gut reaction was to kill it.

Why can't you believe me when I've said that alignment has negatively affected my campaigns? It has made me do more work than I normally would have and the assumptions that come with alignment have caused several arguments between PCs that have ruined the fun for entire sessions.
 

This is obviously controversial. Here's one reason why:

Another reason is that "law" doesn't, or at least need not, entail stasis. Similarly, freedom and individuality need not entail entropy.
In an extreme form? Yes, they do. For the average party member? No, definitely not.
More generally, the question of whether humans flourish under conditions of order, or of individuality; and whether the proper unit of analysis for flourishing is the society or the individual (and how those two are connected), does not have a non-controversial answer.
Again, we're not talking about minor types of law and chaos. We're talking about the cosmic extremes of what Law and Chaos entail.
 


Won’t somebody think of the dragons?

It’s a game. Games have antagonists. No real dragon was or is harmed in the making or playing of D&D.

Besides, unless im mistaken the MM says “a typical whatever is this alignment”. So not all Red Dragons.

Do you accept that a thimble exists in Monopoly or do you question its validity on the game board?

It’s just a game. Not a psych test about morality.

As I mentioned in another thread, some of guys make D&D way more complicated than it needs to be.
Dude, knock it off. This is the dumbest and most obvious strawman I've seen on this site in a while. You know exactly what I'm talking about, and this is not it. This is not "won't someone think of the wellfare of the imaginary creatures". It's "the game's stupid alignment assumptions made me do more work in an Eberron campaign than I should have".

I don't care about that NPC that they killed. I wasn't attached to the character in any way. I was just annoyed that the plot hook that I thought was cool was ruined because my players' gut reaction to "black dragon" was "MURDER IT!"

No one is judging anyone else's morality for killing black dragons. I'm not offended that my PCs killed it. Just annoyed that I had to do more work to include that part of the campaign.
 





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