D&D General XP Awards for -- what????

[kenada]

I'm not okay with using them to program people.

But that’s what a reward structure does. That’s the point. If a group wants to play a game about delving into dungeons and hauling back treasure, a reward structure like XP for gold will reinforce or encourage that. If we want to play a game that foregrounds the relationships between characters, then getting to mark XP when our history reaches its peak or its lowest should do likewise. These games are about something, and the rewards relate to and reinforce that.

Even the goals structure in my game works like that. The game is supposed to be player-driven, and the rewards are set up to encourage them to drive (after having seen players with good ideas pre-game forget about and neglect them during the game). My application was absolutely psychological hacking, using my experience practicing GTD. There’s a brief discussion of the cognitive science research discussed in chapter 14 of the second edition of the namesake book.

I know that for some, the game aspect of RPGs should be minimized (for immersion, to avoid perceptions of rollplay versus roleplay, etc), which is a perfectly fine way to approach RPGs. And foregrounding the reasoning for certain design choices and how they effect certain types of play may come across as a violation of that spirit, or it could be that one prefers play to seem organic and does not want such considerations to be foregrounded. I don’t know. I’m just trying to understand the nature of the objection.

To use another example from video games, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild uses power ups and treasure as a way to incentivize exploration. Is that problematic? Or is it the decision-making that says, “I am doing this (placing treasure, heart containers, new powers, etc) for the reason of inducing certain behaviors (exploration) in players?”

I mean, to each their own. I’m just trying to explore the topic and understand the objection.

 

[Charles Lowry]

I checked all the options. Ultimately, I distribute XP if its described in an encounter and the MM, but most of my adventures are homebrew and will award XP based on how the players interact with the game. Roleplay, outside the box thinking (IE: something I didn't think of), playing their character into less advantageous situations because it is a part of their character's 'flaw', etc.... They don't have to be large awards, but I still like providing XP to those specific players.

 

[MNblockhead]

Like others, I change it by campaign.

In my Curse of Strahd campaign I used Structured Milestone XP for Curse of Strahd by R. Padron, which I got from DMs Guild:

Structured Milestone XP for Curse of Strahd - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Structured Milestone XP for Curse of Strahd - This is a system aimed to help DM's with awarding Milestone XP for Curse of Strahd. It will be updated as I play and mak

www.dmsguild.com

Basically you got points (like 1 to 3) for each area explored/discovered, each Macguffin found, each antagonist defeated, each quest objective fulfilled, etc. It worked quite well. But I still find it too much work to create a structured milestone system by myself. Hard to tweak it to the ideal pacing for the campaign or adventure.

Milestone is by far the easiest. For an adventure with a main plot and objective, I just level the party up based on where they are in the story. Yeah, its railroady, but whatever, it works and we have fun.

In my current campaign I use XP for GP with some minor milestone awards. This has work extremely well for a more sandbox style, slow-burn, years-long (in real life) campaign.

I've also ran a campaign where each session the PCs were the next level. One level per 8-hour session to 20 levels.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But that’s what a reward structure does.

There is a difference between an incidental effect of playing a game and actively taking advantage of that to manipulate my friends as the post I originally replied to was suggesting.

 

[Oofta]

One thought on PC levels which is part of why I don't use XP. For me as DM, the reason I want to give PCs levels is because I want to tell different stories, or at least different aspects of an ongoing story. It also makes sense that the more experience you have at a job, in general the better you will be at it. But that's, by far, secondary.

So I want PCs to be a higher level so instead of fighting the corruption of the district captain of the guard or taking on jobs where they're taking out rodents of an unusual size invading a local farm, they're fighting dragons. The scope and impact of their challenges changing is an interesting part of D&D from a DMs perspective.

So I want everyone to level together. Because it has nothing to do with rewarding the player's PCs, (getting me as a DM should be reward enough ) it's about letting the players feel like they're making more of a difference, having more impact, as the story progresses. For me XP, along with pushing my ideas of "how to play" that I don't want, is just a cludgy way of advancing the story. I'd rather just turn the page and start the next chapter.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Something I just thought of after reading @Oofta's last post was this:

I think I will start leveling players instead of PCs. In my Tuesday night group (all fairly new people) I've realized they are still struggling with some basic elements of the game. The PCs are just 3rd level, but I don't really think the players are ready for more.

Now, I get the impression most of these players don't really do much concerning the game outside of our sessions. Because of that, those people are learning the game slowly. If they can't increase their understanding of the game rules, how can they manage more and more features, etc.?

It's just a thought...

 

[Retreater]

There is a difference between an incidental effect of playing a game and actively taking advantage of that to manipulate my friends as the post I originally replied to was suggesting.

I think it's more like reinforcement in behavioral psychology. We reward the behaviors we like to see. For example, I'm going to reward the more productive employee with advancement opportunities, raises, etc.
In gaming, are you going to give a party who sits around telling jokes and not engaged with the adventure the best rewards? Or are you going to reward brave actions, clever plans, etc.?
For people (even if they are my friends) who just want to sit around and chat - that's its own reward. They don't need XP, treasure, story development.

 

[Velderan]

XP is for Winners
If you overcome an obstacle, you get XP. It doesn't mater how you do this (violence, trickery, guile, whatever), as long as you do it.

If you sneak past an obstacle in a manner that means you could encounter that same obstacle later, you might only get ½XP.

XP is for Closers
If you achieve a goal, you get XP.

I used to do similar things in 2e. If the party "defeated" a creature without combat and removed them as a threat, I'd award full exp. If the creature could come back at some point because they just snuck past, I'd award 1/4 or 1/2 exp depending.

 

[Retreater]

I think I will start leveling players instead of PCs.

I'm not sure how that works mechanically without increasing the complexity of the game.
Maybe you can increase the numbers (AC, attack bonuses, hit points, damage, etc) without granting higher level spells, class features, etc.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm not sure how that works mechanically without increasing the complexity of the game.
Maybe you can increase the numbers (AC, attack bonuses, hit points, damage, etc) without granting higher level spells, class features, etc.

Unfortunately, at this point some of them can't even get the numerical stuff correct.

For example, a player this week didn't understand how to determine his bonus for making his CON save. As a cleric, he doesn't have proficiency, but he does have the Resilient feat for CON, granting him proficiency. He thought his bonus was just +3 (for CON 16), and I had to remind him to add his proficiency bonus, and that he should finally write the +5 modifier on his character sheet (which is at least 25% incomplete).