D&D 5E Subclass feature vs. feat -- Which is "worth" more?

[Minigiant]

that was the problem of too much spell slots with autoscaling spell levels for spellcasters.

if you played 3.5e/PF1 with only martials(including paladin&ranger, that spellcasting was awful), game went pretty good.
or if you limit full casters to half of max levels with mandatory multiclass.

but, I agree some feats were bad and trap options as a part of a good feat chain.

No I mean, in order to not have traps and bad options nor double dipping, you'll have to gate off styles.

And boom, you've recreated subclasses

 

[TwoSix]

No I mean, in order to not have traps and bad options nor double dipping, you'll have to gate off styles.

And boom, you've recreated subclasses

If you're in a game with 3e/5e style multiclassing, even classes are really just another feat chain.

 

[Corinnguard]

having not seen it for myself was Bo9S actually magical or is it just 'these characters are managing to reliably do anything more impressive than the 'guy at the gym' could', another case of 'taunting reliably is mind control'

Hopefully the latter. Combat maneuvers are more feat-like IMO. At least the combat maneuvers in Level Up seemed that way to me.

 

[TwoSix]

having not seen it for myself was Bo9S actually magical or is it just 'these characters are managing to reliably do anything more impressive than the 'guy at the gym' could', another case of 'taunting reliably is mind control'

Reasonably magical for a few of the schools. The Desert Wind school, as an example, could produce cones of fire, or an inferno blast that did 100 damage.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It's really not that and more that the community won't coalesce around the idea that their are multiple types of nonspellcasting martials in media but only allowing 1 fighter and 1 barbarian

IMHO there are 5 types typically of tropes and the JOAT:

1. Fragile Speedster high speed, low toughness
2. Glass Cannon high power, low toughness
3. Brick Wall high toughness low offense
4. Mighty Glacier high power low speed
5. One Hit Wonder high power low stamina
6. Jack of all Options

i don't disagree that there should be more more martial class archetypes, but my point is that casters have entire lists of 'extra class abilities', because IMO that's what spells functionally are, at level 10 a ('24)cleric has 5 cantrips and 15 prepared spells all distinct abilities, martials lack access to such an array of abilities to be able to properly customise and optimise themselves for different roles and purposes.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Reasonably magical for a few of the schools. The Desert Wind school, as an example, could produce cones of fire, or an inferno blast that did 100 damage.

how much is 'a few of the schools'? you make it sound more of the exception rather than the rule, is it reasonable to infer from that that some of the other schools stuck to more of the purely skill based faire?

 

[TwoSix]

how much is 'a few of the schools'? you make it sound more of the exception rather than the rule, is it reasonable to infer from that that some of the other schools stuck to more of the purely skill based faire?

Most of the schools are probably preternatural, but not obviously supernatural. The schools that are restricted to swordsage and crusader, which are a little more "supernatural" by intent, have more obviously supernatural elements. The schools that warblades use, which is the most "fighter-like" of the 9 Swords classes, are basically "fighter+".

I mean, these are some of the 9th level manuevers open to Warblades:

Strike of Perfect Clarity:

Strike

Deal +100 damage on single attack.

Mountain Tombstone Strike:

Strike

Attack deals 2d6 Constitution damage.

Feral Death Blow:

Strike

Leap upon foe, slay him with a single strike.

They strike me as obviously strong, but nothing that screams "that fighter is actually a wizard".

Link for reference.

 

[Horwath]

If you're in a game with 3e/5e style multiclassing, even classes are really just another feat chain.

in 5E, classes are feat chains.

 

[TwoSix]

in 5E, classes are feat chains.

Yes. I agree, but thanks for your agreement!

 

[Minigiant]

i don't disagree that there should be more more martial class archetypes, but my point is that casters have entire lists of 'extra class abilities', because IMO that's what spells functionally are, at level 10 a ('24)cleric has 5 cantrips and 15 prepared spells all distinct abilities, martials lack access to such an array of abilities to be able to properly customise and optimise themselves for different roles and purposes.

I don't disagree with you My point is the reason why there aren't predescribed martial features is because the community does not agree on what combat abilities martial characters should have at high levels so there's nothing to create beyond the base combat system.