Dragonlance Dragonlance Adventure & Prelude Details Revealed

Over on DND Beyond Amy Dallen and Eugenio Vargas discuss the beginning of Shadow of ther Dragon Queen and provide some advice on running it.

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This epic war story begins with an invitation to a friend's funeral and three optional prelude encounters that guide you into the world of Krynn. Amy Dallen is joined by Eugenio Vargas to share some details about how these opening preludes work and some advice on using them in your own D&D games.


There is also information on the three short 'prelude' adventures which introduce players to the world of Krynn:
  • Eye in the Sky -- ideal for sorcerers, warlocks, wizards, or others seeking to become members of the Mages of High Sorcery.
  • Broken Silence -- ideal for clerics, druids, paladins, and other characters with god-given powers.
  • Scales of War -- ideal for any character and reveals the mysterious draconians.
The article discusses Session Zero for the campaign and outlines what to expect in a Dragonlance game -- war, death, refugees, and so on.

 

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If someone wants to argue that WotC should publish settings that only use tropes consistent with enlightenment morality and politics, rather than reactionary tropes, that's their prerogative. That will kill stone-dead a lot of traditional fantasy - eg LotR, King Arthur, Robin Hood, Earthsea, as well as DL, FR, GH and many other worlds - but not all. A version of REH's Hyborian Age, but shorn of sexism and racism, makes the cut; so does The Dying Earth.

But it's silly to argue that fantasy works with reactionary tropes like death as a form of retributive violence (pretty common in D&D), or permissible killing in consensual violence (again, pretty common in D&D - even though the enlightenment outlaws duelling), endorse murder, or present murder as Good in some incoherent fashion. And it's similarly, in my view, to characterise a reactionary trope like collective divine punishment (as found in DL, and LotR/Middle Earth) as endorsing genocide, or presenting genocide as good.

In other words, argue against the use of reactionary tropes; don't misdescribe what the authors of the fantasy works are authoring.
The DMG lists Dragonlance as "epic fantasy" and says

An epic-fantasy campaign emphasizes the conflict between good and evil as a prominent element of the game, with the adventurers more or less squarely on the side of good. These characters are heroes in the best sense, driven by a higher purpose than selfish gain or ambition, and facing incredible dangers without blinking. Characters might struggle with moral quandaries, fighting the evil tendencies within themselves as well as the evil that threatens the world. And the stories of these campaigns often include an element of romance: tragic affairs between star-crossed lovers, passion that transcends even death, and chaste adoration between devout knights and the monarchs and nobles they serve.
So, unless the Good gods are shown to be fighting the evil tendencies within them or working to redeem themselves for their evil act, then their actions seriously muddy the waters between good and evil.
 

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You seem to think that you have some special access to the meaning of the alignment definitions in the game. Why is your access more privileged than anyone else's? Including Gygax's, who (i) invented the contemporary D&D alignment system, and (ii) appears to have regarded it as consistent with divine punishment.
Because what @GMforPowergamers was saying is "I am not discussing real-world Mormonism here. I am discussing the game."
 


First off: My experience with AD&D--and my first edition was 2e, and yes, I played a fair amount of Dragonlance back then--is that the assumed settings didn't really involve feudal framework.
Fair enough. I'm pointing out that the PHB contemplates it. So does Gygax's DMG, with its list of government types.

Not one that revolved around slaves-in-all-but-name serfs and women being property and the Church being a law unto itself and tons of wars and everyone dying from the plague or the other nasty parts of the actual Medieval time period. AD&D assumed a fantasy world of knights in shining armor who actually performed great deeds and stood up for the beleaguered peasantry, who were mostly beleaguered due to Obviously Evil tyrants or monster attacks (or both), not because they were basically property.
What you describe here is the trope of romantic fantasy. It only works if you actually ignore everything about how the "beleaguered peasants" are living and subsisting. What do the knights do to accrue the wealth that makes their steeds, castles, armour etc possible? What percentage of the population can possibly be supported in that style?

Perhaps you are happy to ignore those things. To the best of my knowledge, no-one calls you a murderer or tyrant or fascist for doing so, although in the real world ignoring those things would be deeply, deeply reactionary and vicious.

DL is working in the same space, using the same device of suspending a certain sort of moral judgement.

Secondly, did you see the thing I wrote about Deadlands? In case you didn't, the book calls out the racism, bigotry, and sexism endemic to the time period as being wrong, even though those things were considered normal or even good at the time.
Actually they weren't considered normal or good in any universal sense. Frederick Douglass, for instance, wrote and spoke well before 1884 (I think that was the year you mentioned). The revolution in Haiti had well and truly taken place by that time. I don't need the authors of Deadlands to tell me how to make political sense of American society in 1884.

DL is not a treatise on politics. It's not even a treatise on theology. It's a work of religiously informed romantic fantasy, and it uses the trope of divine retribution because that is part of the palette of tropes used within that genre to convey thoughts about the humility and pride, and the relationship between humans, hope, providence and redemption.

Literally the only reason to bring in "it was considered OK in a pre-enlightenment time" is if you actively want to have cruel or evil things be considered good in this world.
This claim is literally false. It is as literally false as would be my claim The only reason for you to play a game with paladins and peasant is because you are an uber-reactionary who hates everything achieved by the French Revolution and similar social and political movements.

Part of why I have said that your criticism is shallow is that it is seems so self-centred: you extend to yourself the privilege of imagination and artistic expression by way of fantasy tropes, but think that anyone else who is doing the same, but using tropes you are not interested in, must be taking their tropes literally and not understanding how to engage in imaginative expression.
 


Fair enough. I'm pointing out that the PHB contemplates it. So does Gygax's DMG, with its list of government types.
I think we can safely discount Gygax's take on morality.

Also, while the books may say "here's how feudalism works," how often is it actually used properly in a game? Maybe your game use a feudalism system, but how many games in total do you think use it?

What you describe here is the trope of romantic fantasy. It only works if you actually ignore everything about how the "beleaguered peasants" are living and subsisting. What do the knights do to accrue the wealth that makes their steeds, castles, armour etc possible? What percentage of the population can possibly be supported in that style?
Which, IME, describes the vast majority of D&D games. How are the knights accruing wealth? Killing dragons, most likely. How is the population supported? Well, since most settings have gods dedicated to nature or agriculture, their clerics would have the duty to use their magic to make sure the crops grow healthy and strong.

Perhaps you are happy to ignore those things. To the best of my knowledge, no-one calls you a murderer or tyrant or fascist for doing so, although in the real world ignoring those things would be deeply, deeply reactionary and vicious.
I should hope that nobody calls me a fascist for making a world where people aren't being abused!

And reactionary and vicious to who? This isn't the real world and it doesn't have real history. The moment you include magic or sentient non-humans or active gods you take it away from anything approaching realism. Gold dragons, or elves, or human monks (the class) developed Enlightenment ideas ages ago.

It is unrealistic to make a fantasy world, include fantasy elements, and assume that it works exactly the same way that the real world worked.

DL is working in the same space, using the same device of suspending a certain sort of moral judgement.

Actually they weren't considered normal or good in any universal sense. Frederick Douglass, for instance, wrote and spoke well before 1884 (I think that was the year you mentioned). The revolution in Haiti had well and truly taken place by that time. I don't need the authors of Deadlands to tell me how to make political sense of American society in 1884.
I wasn't aware that Haiti was in the American South.

And have you not heard of "scientific racism?" Of the leaps people made to come up with reasons while non-whites and women should be kept in their place because they couldn't handle things the way white men could, that they needed white men to show them the way? There are literally people today who say that slavery was good because it helped to "civilize" Africans. Yes, racism and sexism was very much considered good in many places.

This is also ignoring the actual point, which is: just because something was acceptable then doesn't mean it's acceptable today.

DL is not a treatise on politics. It's not even a treatise on theology. It's a work of religiously informed romantic fantasy, and it uses the trope of divine retribution because that is part of the palette of tropes used within that genre to convey thoughts about the humility and pride, and the relationship between humans, hope, providence and redemption.
And divine justice, in a fantasy world that uses alignments, is evil--at least when it involves genocide and world-damaging events. Nobody was taught humility or pride; they were killed. The survivors weren't filled with hope or redemption; they were abandoned for centuries, even the ones who had always been faithful. The kingpriest and his most evil followers weren't targeted with pinpoint-accurate strikes.

It's even not "divine justice." It's a meaningless backstory and plot contrivance used to make the players feel heroic when they reverse it in the very first adventure. It might be divine justice if the meta-plot advanced in a way that, after several years of the game and things being progressively worse, Dragonlance decided that the gods were leaving and here comes the next boxed set or edition, sans divine spellcasters. If it had been done as a series of adventures like the Grand Conjunction of Ravenloft.

Instead? It's nothing. It's literally pointless. It has no meaning to the game or setting being played, unless the meaning is "the gods of this world are jerks and shouldn't be worshiped" or you're choosing to play a game during that time period.

This claim is literally false. It is as literally false as would be my claim The only reason for you to play a game with paladins and peasant is because you are an uber-reactionary who hates everything achieved by the French Revolution and similar social and political movements.
Why would I care about the French Revolution in a setting that has no France?

Part of why I have said that your criticism is shallow is that it is seems so self-centred: you extend to yourself the privilege of imagination and artistic expression by way of fantasy tropes, but think that anyone else who is doing the same, but using tropes you are not interested in, must be taking their tropes literally and not understanding how to engage in imaginative expression.
Which is rather what you're doing as well, you know, by saying that people who aren't accepting that this "divine justice" is perfectly OK are wrong.
 


The game, in this case, is clearly based on real-world Mormonism.
Except... it's not.

I mean, yes, it's obvious that it was based on, or at least highly influenced by, Mormonism. But it's a fantasy religion. It's not like, say, In Nomine where you literally play an angel or demon from Abrahamic religions, and you can choose the Archangel Gabriel or Michael as your patron.

Y'all need to separate the fantasy religion from the real-world one.
 

Except... it's not.

I mean, yes, it's obvious that it was based on, or at least highly influenced by, Mormonism. But it's a fantasy religion. It's not like, say, In Nomine where you literally play an angel or demon from Abrahamic religions, and you can choose the Archangel Gabriel or Michael as your patron.

Y'all need to separate the fantasy religion from the real-world one.

Based on or influenced by, being the extent of it's connection, I dont know what separation you are looking for. Its based on a religion and world view that likely sees the Flood, as:

1. Factual.
2. Justified.
3. Divine Judgement.
4. Executed by a "Good and Just" God.

I don't know how to make it any more clear, that the Cataclysm of DL, is the same concept, in the eyes of the creators of the setting.

Which, is the whole point of this many page debate.
 

Based on or influenced by, being the extent of it's connection, I dont know what separation you are looking for. Its based on a religion and world view that likely sees the Flood, as:
...
That's very, very easy.

Treat it as if it has no connection to anything in real life, as if Weiss and Hickman made it up whole cloth.

Don't compare it to anything involving the Abrahamic religions, just like you wouldn't compare the actions of, say, the Forgotten Realms gods to anything in the real world.

And then judge it that way.
 

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