D&D General XP Awards for -- what????

[Vaalingrade]

I use milestone and I still reward advancement for player generated plots.

 

[pemerton]

What @niklinna is describing is pretty much exactly how my friend runs his D&D games. The PCs decide on their goals and as they work toward those goals they level up.

My understanding of the 5e milestone system is that it is about GM-established goals. What you describe here seems more-or-less the opposite of that: an extension of 4e D&D's player-authored quest system.

 

[pointofyou]

My understanding of the 5e milestone system is that it is about GM-established goals. What you describe here seems more-or-less the opposite of that: an extension of 4e D&D's player-authored quest system.

We skipped 4e for reasons that looking back had more to do with us than with the game so I cannot comment on what 4e did. If pressed I would refer to what my friend does as more along the lines of ad hoc or fiat leveling. When he thinks we've done enough toward a goal to merit leveling up we get a "Welcome to level next" announcement at the end of a session.

 

[iserith]

I don't much care for leveling up when the DM says so, nor do I like "ad hoc" awards for "roleplaying" or the like. I like to know in advance how the XP can be acquired so I can get after it, and props to the DM if they align the means by which the players can earn XP with the structure, content, and theme of the game. That sort of feedback loop is quite satisfying in my experience.

 

[payn]

I don't much care for leveling up when the DM says so, nor do I like "ad hoc" awards for "roleplaying" or the like. I like to know in advance how the XP can be acquired so I can get after it, and props to the DM if they align the means by which the players can earn XP with the structure, content, and theme of the game. That sort of feedback loop is quite satisfying in my experience.

I know some folks do not do well with ambiguity, so this take is understandable. I do think no matter how XP is used, the GM should align the structure, content, and theme of the game to it.

 

[M_Natas]

XP is usually as much DM fiat as milestone level; after all, who decides when the PCs get XP, and what for?

There are rules for that in the books and the XP Feedback Loop is really fast. If the players don't know what gives XP, after the first Session players will usally know. With Milestone leveling the Feedback loop is very slow. Like the GM in a game I'm a player right now literally decided on a whim that we Leveled up yesterday (he es a newbie DM, so I will talk with him about that).

Why couldn't you listen for, or ask, what your players' personal goals are? Then, when they achieve those goals, you give them XP, or a level-up. Yes, you would have to change (or ditch) your whole milestone-leveling system, but since that feels too much like DM fiat to you anyhow, maybe everybody wins.

First, of course I listen to my players and listen and react to their Feedback.
Second, now you want me to create a whole new Level-Up system to replace a fully functioning XP system that would do all that for me?
That is the biggest problem: For a milestone leveling system to be as good (or better) than the XP system, you need to really create a whole new system. You would need to actually do more work than with the XP system. Milestone leveling seems easy, but it is actually not. If not done right, it sucks. And I would say not a lot of DMs, especially newbie DMs can do Milestone Leveling without it sucking and be worse than the standard XP system.

Again, there are plenty of ways to track progress, and again, it doesn't have to be to a next level (of power, or complexity).

In DnD 5e there are not many mechanical ways to track progress. You have levels, XP, gear and Gold. And gear and Gold progress literally suck in RAW 5e. So you are actually stuck with Character Levels and XP on the mechanical side of the game for the feel of progress.

If your players enjoy 1-Encounter-Days, and don't enjoy being punished for it, well, why are you making what should be an enjoyable pastime not enjoyable? Maybe find ways to incentivize rather than dis-incentivize.

The 1-Encounter-Day was just an example of players optimising the fun out of the game. Players tend to do that and you as the DM need to help them see the right way

 

[payn]

There are rules for that in the books and the XP Feedback Loop is really fast. If the players don't know what gives XP, after the first Session players will usally know. With Milestone leveling the Feedback loop is very slow. Like the GM in a game I'm a player right now literally decided on a whim that we Leveled up yesterday (he es a newbie DM, so I will talk with him about that).

Talk to them about it, or told them how it's "supposed" to be done?

The 1-Encounter-Day was just an example of players optimising the fun out of the game. Players tend to do that and you as the DM need to help them see the right way

lol, nevermind its like I knew this was coming.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And I would say not a lot of DMs, especially newbie DMs can do Milestone Leveling without it sucking and be worse than the standard XP system.

Few things suck more than unnecessary number crunching and uneven leveling.

 

[iserith]

Few things suck more than unnecessary number crunching and uneven leveling.

Perhaps for some simple addition does suck, but at least it's not very difficult and takes seconds to accomplish. Uneven leveling I don't see as a big deal either, particularly as I'm used to having a player pool (or playing in one).

I would be fine with story-based advancement (what some call "milestones leveling"), but in order to buy into that, I'm going to need to know what the "significant goal" is that we are supposed to achieve before we can level up. If it's just whenever the DM feels like it and/or whenever the players complain a sufficient amount, that's not for me. Tell me what I have to do, specifically, so I can go do it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Perhaps for some simple addition does suck, but at least it's not very difficult and takes seconds to accomplish.

No one that supports bounded accuracy gets to try and make this point. And the math BA was meant to take away had way more of a purpose than XP calculations.

I would be fine with story-based advancement (what some call "milestones leveling"), but in order to buy into that, I'm going to need to know what the "significant goal" is that we are supposed to achieve before we can level up. If it's just whenever the DM feels like it and/or whenever the players complain a sufficient amount, that's not for me. Tell me what I have to do, specifically, so I can go do it.

If you don't know when you've achieved a significant goal, there's more problems than just the leveling method.