D&D 5E Is Kratos a good representative of a high-level martial?

[Asisreo]

I've been playing GOW (2018) and GOW:Ragnarok. Both fantastic games but as I was playing them, I wondered if Kratos was enough of a fantasy for those who want "powerful high-level martials."

He's a god, but he also feels fairly grounded. He'd fit perfectly with the Barbarian fantasy and while he doesn't necessarily punch mountains like an anime protagonist, he does have epic-level feats under his belt.

 

[Charlaquin]

It’ll of course vary from person to person. But I’d say Dad of Boy Kratos is a pretty decent model for a high-level Barbarian. He performs superhuman feats of strength, takes hits from gods in stride, and has a rage ability that heals him when he enters it. Not to mention a decent arsenal of powerful magic items. I haven’t played the original trilogy or Ragnarok, so can’t comment on those depictions.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Show me a stat block (since I have no clue what you are talking about) and I'll let you know.

 

[Charlaquin]

Show me a stat block (since I have no clue what you are talking about) and I'll let you know.

He’s a video game character. Making a D&D stat block for him would kinda defeat the point of the question, which seems to be to gauge what people want high-level martial characters to be capable of.

The important thing to know about Kratos is he’s a god (err… demigod? Son of Aries and a Spartan woman, if I’m not mistaken), but in a setting where gods are fairly grounded. They are superhumanly strong, some can do magic (but Kratos either can’t or chooses not to) and they can survive some pretty brutal damage, but can be killed. In fact, killing most of the Greek pantheon was kinda the whole premise of the original trilogy, and in the 2018 and 2022 sequels he’s gained some chill and is trying to break the cycle of violence but still ends up in situations where he has little choice but to kill gods of the Norse pantheon.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That fight at the start of the latest game? That's what a fight should look like in game.

Around level 8.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I've been playing GOW (2018) and GOW:Ragnarok. Both fantastic games but as I was playing them, I wondered if Kratos was enough of a fantasy for those who want "powerful high-level martials."

He's a god, but he also feels fairly grounded. He'd fit perfectly with the Barbarian fantasy and while he doesn't necessarily punch mountains like an anime protagonist, he does have epic-level feats under his belt.

Fundamentally I don't think there is a single answer, but it does highlight the most-fought-over sticking points of the question.

Kratos does some superhuman feats of strength, and takes and does damage at a scale the game tells us are godlike, but he doesn't move mountains, wrestle rivers, or lead armies. He can solve (most) any problem that can be solved by lifting (discreet objects), jumping (to objects within the landscape feature he currently inhabits, so across a ravine but not across an ocean or to the moon), or making things dead. That is, arguably*, what high level martials already get to do. The question then becomes 'is that enough (when non-martials can do X, Y, and Z at the same point)?' and to that 4 people will have 5 incompatible opinions.
*and this D&D edition or that makes magic-unassisted jumping really weak, and the other one lifting, and the third maybe the damage they do isn't actually that impressive compared to things defined as godly.

 

[DND_Reborn]

He’s a video game character. Making a D&D stat block for him would kinda defeat the point of the question, which seems to be to gauge what people want high-level martial characters to be capable of.

Thanks. I've watched a couple videos of his fights online so that gives me a better idea.

I wondered if Kratos was enough of a fantasy for those who want "powerful high-level martials."

For me, that would be "epic" levels (21-30), not just "powerful high-level martials" (as in maybe 14-20 levels for me).

The question then becomes 'is that enough (when non-martials can do X, Y, and Z at the same point)?' and to that 4 people will have 5 incompatible opinions.

Yep. That is the problem with people sporting "remove wizard" and "wizard should be godlike" and such. I've always viewed D&D preferences on three ranges: mundane, heroic, and superheroic. I wish WotC would design D&D to model those by levels 1-10, 11-20, and 21-30, respectively.

Alternatively, have the regular levels 1-20, but for each class, monster, etc. have them developed so that the baseline mundane is default, add on features for a heroic game, and additional features for a super-heroic game.

 

[Tonguez]

Here’s Kratos fighting Garm (giant winter wolf?)

 

[Willie the Duck]

Yep. That is the problem with people sporting "remove wizard" and "wizard should be godlike" and such. I've always viewed D&D preferences on three ranges: mundane, heroic, and superheroic. I wish WotC would design D&D to model those by levels 1-10, 11-20, and 21-30, respectively.

4e vaguely did so. I don't think it really would work because people want the option to advance (even if most games never reach the cutoffs*).
*see also: TSR-era racial level limits

Personally, I think what should have happened (probably too late now, but who knows) was for maybe levels 1-10 (3, 5, maybe 10) be the same for all, and then there be separate versions of the game for higher levels depending on your preferences. In the superheroic game, wizards can do neigh anything, but non-casters can wrestle rivers or sing so sweet death gives back their loved ones or the like. In the mundane game, fighters never do something a real medieval soldier couldn't; but the wizard also never got the truly game-changing spells.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Fundamentally I don't think there is a single answer, but it does highlight the most-fought-over sticking points of the question.

Kratos does some superhuman feats of strength, and takes and does damage at a scale the game tells us are godlike, but he doesn't move mountains, wrestle rivers, or lead armies. He can solve (most) any problem that can be solved by lifting (discreet objects), jumping (to objects within the landscape feature he currently inhabits, so across a ravine but not across an ocean or to the moon), or making things dead. That is, arguably*, what high level martials already get to do. The question then becomes 'is that enough (when non-martials can do X, Y, and Z at the same point)?' and to that 4 people will have 5 incompatible opinions.
*and this D&D edition or that makes magic-unassisted jumping really weak, and the other one lifting, and the third maybe the damage they do isn't actually that impressive compared to things defined as godly.

I would argue that it isn't what high level martials get to do.

Let's compare the same fighter at different levels.

Let's assume this fighter rolled an 18 and therefore starts with 20 STR (if you'd rather, we could instead assume a 6th level fighter that used the array and put their ASIs into STR).

At 20th level this fighter also has a 20 STR.

The 1st level fighter can lift 600 lbs. The 20th level fighter can also lift 600 lbs.

The 1st level fighter can make a running jump of 20 ft. The 20th level fighter can make a running jump of 20 ft.

Of course, the DM can allow the fighter to exceed those limits with an athletics check! Well, the 1st level fighter has an athletics bonus of +7, while the 20th level fighter has a whopping +11.

The 20th level fighter can take more damage than the 1st level fighter, and can deal more damage than the 1st level fighter. Not Kratos levels of damage, IMO (admittedly, I haven't played the games, though I have watched some gameplay). That's about it.