D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to push the game more toward story?

[Snarf Zagyg]

Riffing on the other similarly titled thread...

I keep hearing about how modern D&D is a collaborative storytelling experience and how story trumps all. But then I look around to actual story games and they look nothing like 5E.

....

Thoughts?

Weird. I hear some people say that modern D&D is a collaborative storytelling game.

And then I see that, in terms of marketshare, D&D and Pathfinder and Call of Cthulhu and other games that are not collaboartive story telling games absolutely dwarf those games that people keep saying are the wave of the future (ahem).

And that the market-share of the games people are talking about are roughly equivalent to past editions of D&D.

That's not a criticism- some of the best things in life (such as the media I enjoy) don't appeal to everyone. But I don't think that WoTC wants to LEVERAGE and MONETIZE the success of D&D by going more niche. Just my opinion.

 

[SteveC]

Weird. I hear some people say that modern D&D is a collaborative storytelling game.

And then I see that, in terms of marketshare, D&D and Pathfinder and Call of Cthulhu and other games that are not collaboartive story telling games absolutely dwarf those games that people keep saying are the wave of the future (ahem).

It seems to me that Wizards themselves are saying they want the game to go more in those directions, with recent releases being less classic "fight/dungeon" in nature. If that's the case, it would be a good idea to look at what can be done from a system perspective to help the DM out.

I don't expect much to happen, from what we're seeing from a VTT perspective, the goal seems to be much more of a traditional game. I do think that if Wizards wants to broaden their audience (which they have made a goal) having a strong framework for storytelling/mysteries/social adventures is a necessity. You can run a mystery in D&D, but the DM has to do a lot of lifting that they absolutely don't in a Swords of the Serpentine game.

 

[tetrasodium]

Emphasis mine.

I think you could layer Aspects on to D&D without a whole lot of effort, and could easily change Insiration into fate points. Not that I think that is going to happen -- I'm just saying you could play D&D with that feature of Fate and it would work fine. But then, underneath the aspects, Fate is a pretty trad game engine.

I don't think so. Aspects only work because of compels & the fractal, trying to layer that on top of d&d's exception based abilities would be a disaster of gaming. Without compels aspects are as meaningful as the boxes for hair & eye color but invite "well I'm a roleplayer and my character..." type problems to the table

 

[Clint_L]

1. A DM's Guide that is an actual guide, with the first half devoted to teaching DM's how to better incorporate story, offering a variety of styles through short adventure modules.

2. Make combat suck less and take half as long.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't think so. Aspects only work because of compels & the fractal, trying to layer that on top of d&d's exception based abilities would be a disaster of gaming. Without compels aspects are as meaningful as the boxes for hair & eye color but invite "well I'm a roleplayer and my character..." type problems to the table

We did that for a time and it worked fine. Things like race, class, background, and BIFTs became aspects. You could spend a Fate point to invoke for advantage and the referee could compel based on those. In exactly the way Mearls suggests in that round table. Importantly, as in Fate, the player can refuse the compel by spending a Fate point. Basically saying, “yes, my greedy thief would want to steal that, but she’s working on her self-control just now.”

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It seems to me that Wizards themselves are saying they want the game to go more in those directions, with recent releases being less classic "fight/dungeon" in nature. If that's the case, it would be a good idea to look at what can be done from a system perspective to help the DM out.

I don't expect much to happen, from what we're seeing from a VTT perspective, the goal seems to be much more of a traditional game. I do think that if Wizards wants to broaden their audience (which they have made a goal) having a strong framework for storytelling/mysteries/social adventures is a necessity. You can run a mystery in D&D, but the DM has to do a lot of lifting that they absolutely don't in a Swords of the Serpentine game.

¯\(ツ)/¯

Almost like D&D wants to continue to have their cake and eat it too, by appealing to the broadest possible base. You know- something for the optimizers and the storytellers. Something for the casuals and the less casuals. Something with enough crunch to keep people playing, but not so much that people are scared away. Etc.

Which is why they aren't going to be leaning hard into a particular niche anytime soon.

 

[Yora]

Dungeons & Dragons should focus on rules that push for more dungeons and more dragons.

They have not completely separated the brand name from the core concept of the game yet, but I think they really should try to return to that core concept instead of slapping the brand name on something completely different.
4th edition didn't work out as a D&D branded tactical skirmish game. I don't see 6th edition as a D&D branded storytelling game doing any better.

 

[tetrasodium]

We did that for a time and it worked fine. Things like race, class, background, and BIFTs became aspects. You could spend a Fate point to invoke for advantage and the referee could compel based on those. In exactly the way Mearls suggests in that round table. Importantly, as in Fate, the player can refuse the compel by spending a Fate point. Basically saying, “yes, my greedy thief would want to steal that, but she’s working on her self-control just now.”

Oh I'm sure it can be done with experienced players but IME they try to metagame them pretty hard playing to win &get salty if their Frank Castle/Christopher Smith inspired aspects cause them problems they can't simply ignore.

 

[overgeeked]

Oh I'm sure it can be done with experienced players but IME they try to metagame them pretty hard playing to win &get salty if their Frank Castle/Christopher Smith inspired aspects cause them problems they can't simply ignore.

Weirdly, my experience is the opposite. It’s the inexperienced players who had the easiest time making the adjustment and were the least likely to try to game the system. It was the experienced players who had the hardest time. But yeah, experienced gamers always game whatever system you put in front of them.

 

[Clint_L]

I definitely think it's mistake to try to design for the most hardcore, optimizing players. They'll never be satisfied anyway, and they are a tiny minority. And since 5e is sticking around, what we are really talking about are tweaks and content delivery. As far as combat goes, I think it will continue to be too slow, but that seems like it works for most people, so I'll just work on streamlining it at my table. For content delivery, I do strongly think the DM's Guide is a huge opportunity to actually do something useful with a text that have never really had a strong raison d'être.