D&D 5E How would you do the sword mage in 5e?

I would make it a half caster (use the artificer chart) a bunch of wizard spells (includeing the weapon cantrips) and a bunch of weapon based spells of each of teh 5 levels you can get.
2nd attack based on eldritch knight (so 2 attacks or a cantrip and an attack) and a 3rd attack at level 16 or 17 with a 'you can cast a spell and still make a single attack instead' rider.
d10s for hps
fighting style at some point
Con and Int prof for saves
a bonus skill chosen from arcana history or religion
subclasses ripped right from 4e shielding and assualt.
1st level feature is ritual caster and Int based weapon attacks.
 

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  • When you cast a concentration spell that targets you, and only you, you'd be able to elect to not concentrate on it and still have it take effect. If you do so, the duration would be a maximum of 3 rounds instead of the normal concnetration
This is way too powerful IMO, especially when you bring in multiclasses.

Also I think the 1d4 extra attack damage needs to be once on your turn, not every attack.

The rest of it is ok I think.
 

This is way too powerful IMO, especially when you bring in multiclasses.
It allows you to have up to three self targeting spells up. From experience, it is fine. Early in 5E I began to introduce a "defensive spell" series of spells which are essentially spells target the user only, last for 3 rounds, and are cast as a bonus action or reaction. The goal? To achieve that feel of a wizard battle where the wizards use a spell in reaction to an attack to protect themselves for a short period. They generally have a 1 level bump up over the normal version. It has not been problematic at all.

An example is a 3rd level spell that is cast as a reaction when you are attacked. Until the end of your second turn (allowing the remainder of this turn plus 2 full rounds more), you gain the benefits of the blur spell without concentration, with the same caveats. Compare that to Blink.

Also I think the 1d4 extra attack damage needs to be once on your turn, not every attack.
Note that this is similar to the 2nd level Crimson Rite ability of the Blood Hunter, a Critical Role Homebrew that is widely considered underpowered.
 

It allows you to have up to three self targeting spells up. From experience, it is fine. Early in 5E I began to introduce a "defensive spell" series of spells which are essentially spells target the user only, last for 3 rounds, and are cast as a bonus action or reaction. The goal? To achieve that feel of a wizard battle where the wizards use a spell in reaction to an attack to protect themselves for a short period. They generally have a 1 level bump up over the normal version. It has not been problematic at all.

It allows you to have as many self targeting spells up as you can cast and in addition allows another concentration spell which does not target you. The last part is really the most significant. The concentration rules as is prevent you from combining things like Bless and Hex, or Fear and Haste or Hold Monster and Greater Invisibility.

As an example, you could have from Evil and Good, Haste, Ashardalon's Stride, and Hex all up at the same time and a fighter dip with action surge could have them all four active in round 2 while also getting an attack in round 2 and a full action plus an extra attack in round 2. That is a low level example using only 1st and 3rd level spells. Imagine what you could do with high-level spells.

If I am playing a Bladesinger multiclass I can cast blur and then Haste and I can repeat this casting as bonus actions and keep repeating this over and over giving enemies disadvantage in addition to having a +2 AC, 90 move and all my attacks and an extra action or attack every turn. And I can do this while also concentrating on another offensive spell.

Another problem is incapacitated would not end the spell if it is not concentration.


An example is a 3rd level spell that is cast as a reaction when you are attacked. Until the end of your second turn (allowing the remainder of this turn plus 2 full rounds more), you gain the benefits of the blur spell without concentration, with the same caveats. Compare that to Blink.

Having played a bladesinger extensively - Running Blur or Protection from Evil and good without concentration would be very disruptive. Those are two of the key spells that would make this OP, especially if you can cast them as a bonus action. It is already bordeline OP even with the concentration requirement.

Blink is not as powerful as blur because it is unpredicatable and it puts you on another plane where you for the most part can't use reactions. Both spells take away attacks but blur or PEG are generally going to be more powerful.

For consideration, the most OP character in levels 11-14 I've seen played at a table is a Ranger who could ignore concentration on Summon Fey and that is not even a very powerful spell and it was limited only to that spell.

Note that this is similar to the 2nd level Crimson Rite ability of the Blood Hunter, a Critical Role Homebrew that is widely considered underpowered.

It takes a bonus action and you have to damage yourself to turn it on. That class also has extremely limited spellcasting
 
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It allows you to have as many self targeting spells up as you can cast and in addition allows another concentration spell which does not target you. The last part is really the most significant. The concentration rules as is prevent you from combining things like Bless and Hex, or Fear and Haste or Hold Monster and Greater Invisibility.
Feature, not bug. Rd 1: The wizard gets jumped. They cast the Blur equivalent as a reaction to try to avoid an attack. They then cast a concentration spell (Hypnotic Pattern?) on their next turn. They get to their next turn and use a bonus action and 4th level slot to cast a 3 rd fly spell using another of my spells. When their next turn comes, they lose that Blur.

This is anathema to the 5E design - but it is not broken. I've had this at my game tables for years now and it is not problematic at all.
As an example, you could have from Evil and Good, Haste, Ashardalon's Stride, and Hex all up at the same time and a fighter dip with action surge could have them all four active in round 2 while also getting an attack in round 2 and a full action plus an extra attack in round 2. That is a low level example using only 1st and 3rd level spells. Imagine what you could do with high-level spells.
You're missing the opportunity cost. Casting defensive spells means you are not being offensive.

Go back to AD&D. In that era, how did wizards operate without a concetration limitation? Generally, they cast a bunch of defensive spells before combat - but once it began they spent most spells on offense.

In 5E, how often do people use defensive spells like blur in combat? Rarely, They'll cast blink before combat. They'll use Shield. but do they devote that precious concentration to a defensive spell, or do they use it n something that takes enemies out faster?

This put defensive spells back on the menu, and defensive spells in 5E are not so powerful as to make them no brainers for your use of spell slots even without the concentration limitation.
If I am playing a Bladesinger multiclass I can cast blur and then Haste and I can repeat this casting as bonus actions and keep repeating this over and over giving enemies disadvantage in addition to having a +2 AC, 90 move and all my attacks and an extra action or attack every turn. And I can do this while also concentrating on another offensive spell.
When did you cast that offensive spell?
Another problem is incapacitated would not end the spell if it is not concentration.
As Shield, Blink, and all the other non-concentration spells do not end, as well as spells cast on you with concentration by another caster. That is an illusory problem.
Having played a bladesinger extensively - Running Blur or Protection from Evil and good without concentration would be very disruptive. Those are two of the key spells that would make this OP, especially if you can cast them as a bonus action. It is already bordeline OP even with the concentration requirement.
If used as a bonus action action, you can't cast something else so you're limited to your weapon attack or cantrips for offense on those turns. Bladesingers using their weapons most of the time to attack are not generally the stronger Bladesingers.
Blink is not as powerful as blur because it is unpredicatable and it puts you on another plane where you for the most part can't use reactions. Both spells take away attacks but blur or PEG are generally going to be more powerful.
Blink for 5 rounds or blur for 2 or 3. I can tell you that I've had players go both ways when presented the options.
For consideration, the most OP character in levels 11-14 I've seen played at a table is a Ranger who could ignore concentration on Summon Fey and that is not even a very powerful spell and it was limited only to that spell.
Summon spells are offensive in nature, and removing the limitation on offensive actions is very, very different.
It takes a bonus action and you have to damage yourself to turn it on. That class also has extremely limited spellcasting
All true - but they have other abilities we're not covering here and are considered underpowered.

I can tell you you're wrong about this with extensive evidence because I have a lot of playtesting experience with it. I've been using it for years. When I've played in other games with DMs I have asked if I can use some of these homebrew spells when they fit the character I am playing. I have been told yes and no at different times. When I am told no, I suggest to the DM that they give the spells to their NPC spellcasters. Again, some try it, some don't ... but at the end of the day, almost all that have tried them have not found the situations to be problematic.
 

I think they should make sorcerer con based , maybe fractional caster that leans into their bloodline heritage in somewhat gishy ways
The playtest Sorcerer was still Cha-based, and wasn't fractional,* but it absolutely did exactly that--IIRC the playtest example even used a greatsword! But then, because it failed to meet the 75% popularity or whatever ridiculous threshold they set during D&D Next, it was deleted so thoroughly we never got another playtest Sorcerer for the entire public run (and the one we finally did get was a friggin' hot mess.)

I would LOVE a Sorcerer that is heavily defined by its subclasses, that brings back the old playtest idea of having two souls and getting slowly consumed by your second soul as you spend your spells. Sadly, we're not going to get one in 5e, not even "One D&D." Even the folks who have taken the ultra-broad definition of "backwards compatible" that's been applied to "One D&D" thus far couldn't justify that much change.

If we did get something like that though:
  • Dragon: Elemental gish. Bonuses to HP and AC, empowered physical attacks, flight. Basically the old Dragon Disciple PrC, but actually good.
  • Chaos: Teleportation, randomness, wild surges, etc. Perhaps introduce a mutation mechanic as well--gaining new powers as you burn through your spell resources.
  • Storm: Becoming a living torrent of lightning and thunder, zipping around the battlefield but losing control over who you deal damage to.
  • Divine Soul: Becoming slowly detached from the world, but more and more able to aid others in the doing. Perhaps some kind of self-sacrifice mechanic?
  • Clockwork: Tank! Seriously, laying down the law and becoming part-machine is a perfect reason for a Sorcerer to be beefy and shrug off hits, but becoming harder to heal and instead needing repairs.
The whole thing drips with flavor and potential.

*Good thing, too. It would ruin the Sorcerer to do that.
 


Feature, not bug. Rd 1: The wizard gets jumped. They cast the Blur equivalent as a reaction to try to avoid an attack. They then cast a concentration spell (Hypnotic Pattern?) on their next turn. They get to their next turn and use a bonus action and 4th level slot to cast a 3 rd fly spell using another of my spells. When their next turn comes, they lose that Blur.

This makes the character hugely powerful. Yes it is a feature that would make it WAY out of proportion to other martials.

This is anathema to the 5E design - but it is not broken. I've had this at my game tables for years now and it is not problematic at all.
You're missing the opportunity cost. Casting defensive spells means you are not being offensive.

You are letting them cast them as a bonus action, so there is almost no oppotunity cost. Further some spells like Hex can be cast well before a battle.


Go back to AD&D. In that era, how did wizards operate without a concetration limitation? Generally, they cast a bunch of defensive spells before combat - but once it began they spent most spells on offense.

I cut my teeth on 1E and they operated by drawing an opportunity attack every time they cast a spell in melee, from every enemy in range, having D4 hit points and having very weak spells, had fewer total spells to cast and fewer options on what to cast.

Shield was AC4 and had to be cast on your turn, blur was a -2 to AC and mage armor did not exist. Casting any of these in melee would trigger an attack on you and if it hit they were disrupted and did not take effect. Also you had to choose exactly what spells you were going to cast ahead of time - prepare 1 blur and you can only cast it 1 time the whole day.

In most combats in 1e Wizards threw darts (because you got 3 attacks a round with them). In major combats they would generally use their limited offensive spells for the day, usually trying to do it far away from the action.



In 5E, how often do people use defensive spells like blur in combat?

That is the second most common spell my bladesingers cast (most common is shield) and it would be on any Gish I played that had access to it. It is also cast A LOT by Artificers and Eldritch Knigts or other Gish dips.

Overall I would say Blur is one of the top 10 spells cast period along with shield, Hex, magic missile and healing word. Among 2nd level spells the only spell I can think of that are cast more often is shatter and misty step, and misty step only because it comes on an awesome feat making it available to everyone.

Rarely, They'll cast blink before combat.

They don't need to. They have the ability to cast it as a bonus action based on the write up above.

They'll use Shield. but do they devote that precious concentration to a defensive spell, or do they use it n something that takes enemies out faster?
Yes all the time - Protection from Good and Evil, Blur, Spirit Guardians, Greater Invisibility

I think those are the most commonly cast concentration spells of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level. Can you name any concentration spells of equal level that are cast more often than these? All of them can target only the caster if you play with your changes.

I think you have to go all the way to 5th level and Animate Objects to find a concentration spell that does not target the caster and is cast more often.

This put defensive spells back on the menu, and defensive spells in 5E are not so powerful as to make them no brainers for your use of spell slots even without the concentration limitation.

Greater invisibility makes you immune to the vast majority of enemy spells that enemies could target you with. It is extremely powerful against any enemy caster that does not have blindsight. You are also taking away one of the main counters to it - throw an AOE and try to break concentration.

This is aside from a new tactic of spamming regular 2nd level invisibility as a bonus action while you use your action for something else (or just stay invisible while you maintain concentration-free spirit guardians).

When did you cast that offensive spell?

Does it matter? I can cast it while not concentrating on the concentration buff.

Also let's not mix up offense vs defense. Your ability would apply to "spells that target you". That would include things like Dragons Breath, Shadow Blade and Spirit Guardians.

As Shield, Blink, and all the other non-concentration spells do not end, as well as spells cast on you with concentration by another caster. That is an illusory problem.If used as a bonus action action, you can't cast something else so you're limited to your weapon attack or cantrips for offense on those turns.

You are a GISH weapon attacks are your thing.


Bladesingers using their weapons most of the time to attack are not generally the stronger Bladesingers.

They are when you are throwing out action spells as bonus actions.

Blink for 5 rounds or blur for 2 or 3.

Blur for 3 rounds then recast it as a bonus action for another 3 .... or just use extend spell and get 6 rounds right off the bat.
 
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The playtest Sorcerer was still Cha-based, and wasn't fractional,* but it absolutely did exactly that--IIRC the playtest example even used a greatsword! But then, because it failed to meet the 75% popularity or whatever ridiculous threshold they set during D&D Next, it was deleted so thoroughly we never got another playtest Sorcerer for the entire public run (and the one we finally did get was a friggin' hot mess.)

I would LOVE a Sorcerer that is heavily defined by its subclasses, that brings back the old playtest idea of having two souls and getting slowly consumed by your second soul as you spend your spells. Sadly, we're not going to get one in 5e, not even "One D&D." Even the folks who have taken the ultra-broad definition of "backwards compatible" that's been applied to "One D&D" thus far couldn't justify that much change.

If we did get something like that though:
  • Dragon: Elemental gish. Bonuses to HP and AC, empowered physical attacks, flight. Basically the old Dragon Disciple PrC, but actually good.
  • Chaos: Teleportation, randomness, wild surges, etc. Perhaps introduce a mutation mechanic as well--gaining new powers as you burn through your spell resources.
  • Storm: Becoming a living torrent of lightning and thunder, zipping around the battlefield but losing control over who you deal damage to.
  • Divine Soul: Becoming slowly detached from the world, but more and more able to aid others in the doing. Perhaps some kind of self-sacrifice mechanic?
  • Clockwork: Tank! Seriously, laying down the law and becoming part-machine is a perfect reason for a Sorcerer to be beefy and shrug off hits, but becoming harder to heal and instead needing repairs.
The whole thing drips with flavor and potential.

*Good thing, too. It would ruin the Sorcerer to do that.
Yea, I say maybe fractional caster because it leaves room for meaningful martial gishy features. Coupled with the higher spell slot gains of 3.5 sorcerer compared to wizard of the time it would even do ok as a gish who didn't feel starved even as a fractional 1/2 or 2/3 caster.

Any kind of gish is probably going to be pretty MAD without pitfalls like the attack with cha hexadin so having their caster attrib be con rather than cha would allow for the result to be MAD in complimentary ways for the giant bag of HP even with poor armor options & clear some room for the other casters to suffer notably while armored like when ASF was a thing.
 

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