Can WotC be forgiven?

[LordEntrails]

By me? Absolutely. There are very few things that are unredeemable.

If one is inclined not to forgive, let me leave you with some thoughts from others more attuned than I.

Without forgiveness life is governed by an endless cycle of resentment and retaliation. - Roberto Assagioli

Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. - Ghandi

I think the first step is to understand that forgiveness does not exonerate the perpetrator. Forgiveness liberates the victim. It's a gift you give yourself. - TD Jakes

Forgiveness does not mean ignoring what has been done or putting a false label on an evil act. It means, rather, that the evil act no longer remains as a barrier to the relationship. Forgiveness is a catalyst creating the atmosphere necessary for a fresh start and a new beginning. - MLK

As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn’t leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I’d still be in prison. - Nelson Mandela

Forgiveness is not weak. It takes courage to face and overcome powerful emotions. - Desmond Tutu

 

[Henadic Theologian]

WotC isn't a monolith

If and when the current management team gets the boot for managing to mess up this badly, I can see folks being more generous to 'em, especially if whoever comes in next actually works on fan relation stuff. But its entirely based on whoever comes in next actually being concerned about that and not just endless profit

This is my position, dumping the revoking OGL is a good start and enough to stop me from boycott, but to truely mend fences with me, I want WotC Cynthia Williams and CEO Chris Cocks gone, I'm not interested in holding grudges forever.

Bonus is they put irrevokible into OGL 1.0a and the One D&D SRD under it. Super bonus points if they had previous editions like 2e under it and hand the rights to control the OGL over to a third party like Paizo did.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

"Realizing 1.1 landed with a massive thud, suppose WotC announces that 1.1 is no longer a thing and 1.0a will remain for the indefinite future. They also say they are sorry. Really sorry. Really, really sorry. What would it take for them to be forgiven? Is there any going back at this point?

I don't know,...maybe 10 years of good behavior.

They've admitted they think the OGL 1.0(a) is revocable. That is the very heart of the matter.

 

[Clint_L]

Of course they can be forgiven. They tried a thing I didn't like, got burned, and now appear to be backing away very quickly. We'll see how it comes out. But let's keep this in perspective - it's not like WotC committed a crime or something. Or even intended to. They done screwed up. They're paying a price. Karma seems to be handling the situation.

Entities that I find unforgivable commit violent acts with intent, repeatedly. Commit crimes without remorse. Never interested or capable of changing.

 

[see]

So, my (not-a-lawyer) proposed language for an acceptable OGL 1.0b:

---

1. Definitions:
a. "Authorized" means any version of this license that Wizards of the Coast, Inc., or its authorized agents have, at any time, represented as valid terms for the Use of any Open Game Content, explicitly including those versions published by Wizards of the Coast, Inc. as version 1.0, version 1.0a, and version 1.0b;
[Subsequent definitions get re-lettered as appropriate]
[...]

3. Offer and Acceptance: This License is a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, non-exclusive offer to all persons, natural and legal, to enter into an agreement under its exact terms. By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.

4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content, which can only be terminated as provided for elsewhere in this license.

[...]

13. Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License. This License cannot be terminated or revoked by any other means or for any other reason.

---

Then WotC explicitly releases the SRD (3rd), MSRD (d20 Modern), RSRD (3.5), and SRD5 (5th) under the 1.0b. Then they go and do whatever they like with One D&D.

Yes, that means WotC has to allow people to irrevocably and perpetually making One D&D-compatible material using the old SRDs, rather than what terms they'd like with One D&D. That just means that whatever new restrictions they want to put on the One D&D license will have to have offsetting compensations to convince everyone to use the new license. Just as was the status quo under the understanding of the OGL 1.0a that obtained for the last 22 years.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Of course they can be forgiven. They tried a thing I didn't like, got burned, and now appear to be backing away very quickly. We'll see how it comes out. But let's keep this in perspective - it's not like WotC committed a crime or something. Or even intended to. They done screwed up. They're paying a price. Karma seems to be handling the situation.

Entities that I find unforgivable commit violent acts with intent, repeatedly. Commit crimes without remorse. Never interested or capable of changing.

In my opinion (and this opinion will be met with much opposition) is that they* done did this once before. They do not like the Open Gaming license. Last time they did this we used the License against them, and it hurt them. This time they're going** for the License itself. With their comments today, they've shown me that they are going to revoke the Open Gaming License 1.0(a). Period.

* Who do you think is 'they'? Is 'they' Wizards of the Coast or Hasbro? Or both?
** Present tense, this isn't over.

 

[Clint_L]

In my opinion (and this opinion will be met with much opposition) is that they* done did this once before. They do not like the Open Gaming license. Last time they did this we used the License against them, and it hurt them. This time they're going** for the License itself. With their comments today, they've shown me that they are going to revoke the Open Gaming License 1.0(a). Period.

* Who do you think is 'they'? Is 'they' Wizards of the Coast or Hasbro? Or both?
** Present tense, this isn't over.

Same difference. I am sure that there were tons of folks, especially in the game design area, who were completely opposed to what the suits tried to pull off. I am sure that folks will be fired - this was a monumental screw-up.

This was floating an attempt to undermine the OGL, retracted (partially; we'll see what happens) in the face of a poopstorm. As corporate malfeasance goes, this is not even on my radar of stuff that I would find unforgivable.

Except I don't even like the term "forgive" in this context. I don't really have an emotional relationship with anyone involved. I have an emotional investment in D&D, not in whatever corporation is currently publishing it. My relationship with Hasbro/WotC is purely transactional, so as long as they backtrack and stop doing the thing that bugged me, it's back to status quo. Obviously someone who had to maintain an ongoing business relationship with them would have cause to feel differently.

 

[Matt Thomason]

Except I don't even like the term "forgive" in this context. I don't really have an emotional relationship with anyone involved. I have an emotional investment in D&D, not in whatever corporation is currently publishing it. My relationship with Hasbro/WotC is purely transactional, so as long as they backtrack and stop doing the thing that bugged me, it's back to status quo. Obviously someone who had to maintain an ongoing business relationship with them would have cause to feel differently.

I agree "forgive" isn't the best term to use here. In my case it's "can I ever trust them not to try and pull the OGL in the future" - and until the license text includes the word "irrevocable", that's just not ever going to be true, there will always be threat of that Sword of Damocles attached to the OGL because of what's happened recently.

 

[Minigiant]

Anyone who trusts any large corporation is naive.
Any of them.
There is too much money to trust a business with over 100M/yr revenue to do anything they can get away with legally.
So there is nothing to forgive.

I don't even trust Minigiant Corp.

 

[Enrahim2]

I agree "forgive" isn't the best term to use here. In my case it's "can I ever trust them not to try and pull the OGL in the future" - and until the license text includes the word "irrevocable", that's just not ever going to be true, there will always be threat of that Sword of Damocles attached to the OGL because of what's happened recently.

Irrevokable doesnt seem to be enough if you care about atribution..