Worlds of Design: Leveling vs. Training

We previously covered why training systems were abandoned in D&D. Here's what replaced it.

We previously covered why training systems were abandoned in D&D. Here's what replaced it.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

“For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.” ― Aristotle

Congratulations on Advancing, Pay Up!​

I’ve always thought one of the worst mistakes in AD&D (not repeated in later editions) was the requirement that when you reach enough experience points to rise in level you have to pay somebody an exorbitant sum to “train” reach that new level. I suppose these rules were an attempt to take excess money out of the game, but if applied as written it turned adventurers into mere money grubbers (much worse than treasure-hunters) in order to acquire enough money for training. I want a game of heroes, not money-grubbers, and I doubt that Gary Gygax wanted adventurers to be money-grubbers when he wrote AD&D.

As I discussed in the previous article, it was also wrong-headed because if you did the things that enabled you to survive and prosper then why would you need somebody to train you? You don't teach or even train people in order to somehow mysteriously activate what they already know/know how to do. You teach them in order to provide a substitute for real-world experience (If you're a good teacher, that is) People learn best from experience, and by talking with other practitioners in order to learn from them, and as you get more experience, you improve.

And then there's the chicken and egg question: where did the original trainer come from? There must be a way to learn these things successfully without being trained by someone else.

Fundamentally, we have two competing systems: a level-based system that uses the word “experience” to reflect characters’ development through adventuring, and a more monetary system that requires payment to advance.

The Devolution of Training in D&D​

Subsequent editions of Dungeons & Dragons gradually phased this requirement out, for good reason. I suspect the training rule was dropped in later editions because the designers realized it turns the most noble adventurers (including monks and paladins) into mercenaries, especially when experience points are given for gold. I didn’t need a rule to extract cash from adventurers. I do not give away big treasures, as treasure does not provide experience points in my games.

In AD&D 2nd Edition, training was relegated to an optional rule:
Characters must pay a tutor around 100 gp per level per week, with the duration based on the instructor's Wisdom score. The character must then pass a Wisdom or Intelligence check to level up, retrying each week until successful. The tutor must be a character of the same class and of higher level.
In D&D 3rd Edition, it was assumed characters practiced their skills during downtime, with an optional rule of working with an instructor at 50 gp per week. Skills took one week per skill rank and feats took two weeks. Class abilities and spells also required expenditure of time and money. By 4th Edition, training was removed entirely (with a reference to proficiency replacing training).

Why it Went Away​

There’s nothing inherently wrong with leveling up rules. D&D was intended to be relatively simple. Leveling is meant to be an abstraction in which characters are finally getting a tangible in-game benefit from their experiences that they would have achieved gradually in a real world.

This sudden jump up a level is similar to how hit points are treated in D&D. You don't lose capability as you accumulate damage, but when you get to zero hit points, you’re suddenly incapacitated. Later systems have strayed from the simple hit point approach to cause more nuanced damage, so that characters suffer different penalties than just hit points over time.

This waning effectiveness has its roots in wargames with unit “steps” (including many block games). Damaged units decrease capabilities in discrete increments, because that’s the best we can do with non-computer games. But some designers think that’s better than a unit being fully capable until suddenly it’s dead, as was true in all the older Avalon Hill games such as Stalingrad and Afrika Korps.

More modern games reject this idea of leveling entirely, preferring instead to allow characters to focus on different skills from a pool and increase those as they see fit. It requires considerably more bookkeeping, which is why you see this style of advancement more often in computer role-playing games. Computers make it much easier to keep track of the minute details—and of percentages.

Stepped or Nuanced?​

If we were willing to accept the additional record-keeping and complexity, we could have gradual decreases in abilities with injuries sustained for RPG characters. Similarly, we could have characters increase in one skill or feat before they fully level up. And in some RPG rulesets that is the case, but not in intended-to-be-simple D&D.

D&D codified technical skill with the Proficiency Bonus in 5th Edition, a modifier that is uniformly applied to many aspects of a character’s capabilities. While not a one-to-one equivalent of a character’s level, the Proficiency Bonus replaces much of the fiddly bits of how good a character is at combat, or spellcasting, or avoiding damage by tying it all to one number.

Conversely, there are some rules that restore degrees of advancement or failure in between levels. 5th Edition reserves training for learning new languages or tool proficiencies independent of levels (250 days at a cost of 1 gp per day). Optional rules added further complications and costs in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

On the damage side, 5E has exhaustion levels, which provide a separate track of penalties from hit point loss alone (and can still result in character death!). Speaking of death, there are now death saves, with three fails accumulating in the death of a character.

Despite the relatively simple approach D&D has to success and failure, it’s clear players crave more nuance in how their characters develop or die. We see this in more modern RPGs and in D&D’s gradual removal of training as a requirement for advancement.

Your Turn: What subsystems do you use for advancement or failure in your games?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Then why have I so often seen it - the classroom-to-field training method - in use in real life in some widely-disparate situations:

--- sales training
--- sailing instruction
--- any number of lab courses in school/college
--- driver training
I guarantee you that every one of those who went on to careers in those fields got better at what they did and learned new things while they did it. All of them. The drivers got better, the salesmen improved as they gained experience, and so on. They didn't have to go back to school every so often to see improvement.
Only after they've been trained on what to do
Sure. Initial training like from level 0 to 1. Then they got better by doing without needing more classes to see any improvement. :)
Exactly - and while move #2 is old hat, during his last training is when he learned move #34 for the first time and realized that combo could work.

You're getting it backwards!
I'm not. Literally nobody works that way. Nobody needs to go back to class every few months in order to see any improvement. They get the improvement by working in their fields. Once they get that initial level 0 to level 1 training, they're off to the races. You might see some continuing education in fields that change frequently like law and medicine, but that doesn't preclude improvement and new tricks learned while working. They get that as well.
 

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Orius

Legend
The real problem with training is that it was meant as a fix for the money characters built up due to XP for gp, but it just added another complication onto the game. XP for gp itself wasn't the problem, it was how much XP was needed to advance. XP generally doubled every level until plateauing at name level. The fighter for example needs 250,000 XP for level 9 (220,000 in D&D), and 75% of that was expected to come from treasure. 187,500 gp is a LOT of cash to hand out out. Now things vary a little depending on edition, 1e for example awards some of that treasure from magic items, while 2e mage XP for gp optional, and shifts XP gain to other sources.

In any case, the amount of XP itself is irrelevant, it's the rate of XP gain that really matters. The amounts on the XP tables are arbitrary. Really the XP totals could have been lower, and the amount of treasure reduced as long as the campaign advanced at the desired pace. 3e finally approached XP in this way, and the XP gain is structured around the intended rate of advancement.

So yes, training was very much a way of sucking all that excess money out of the game. At least with 1e, training was only required until name level because at that point, maintaining a stronghold and army was the big money sink. 2e messed up things by always requiring a trainer of a higher level, but the rules at least were optional.

I did use some training in 3e to learn new skills and feats. Improving a skill didn't require training, and there were a small number of feats that didn't require training. Also, the campaign's home base had trainers for the PHB feats, but anything outside that the PCs would have to travel somewhere else to learn. This was used to control access to non core material.
 



EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Nah, I definitely think willing is the better word there. One can almost always come up with an in-fiction justification for something, if one wants to.
Yeah, I agree. The "ability" to accept something is a matter of willpower and rationalization, not physical/mental capacity. Everyone has the capacity to focus on the MST3k mantra: "Just repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, you should really just relax.'" Not everyone has the desire to do so.
 


Thomas Shey

Legend
Yeah, I agree. The "ability" to accept something is a matter of willpower and rationalization, not physical/mental capacity. Everyone has the capacity to focus on the MST3k mantra: "Just repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, you should really just relax.'" Not everyone has the desire to do so.

I think this is tantamount to telling people "You'll like X if you just try" and I think that's, honestly, a terrible take.
 


CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
I guarantee you that every one of those who went on to careers in those fields got better at what they did and learned new things while they did it. All of them. The drivers got better, the salesmen improved as they gained experience, and so on. They didn't have to go back to school every so often to see improvement.

Sure. Initial training like from level 0 to 1. Then they got better by doing without needing more classes to see any improvement. :)

I'm not. Literally nobody works that way. Nobody needs to go back to class every few months in order to see any improvement. They get the improvement by working in their fields. Once they get that initial level 0 to level 1 training, they're off to the races. You might see some continuing education in fields that change frequently like law and medicine, but that doesn't preclude improvement and new tricks learned while working. They get that as well.
maybe yes, people in those jobs they don't explicitly need to 'go to class' to learn new skills but when you get a promotion with new responsibilities or transfer to a new department you have to learn those new techniques from somewhere, it's typically more a constant drip-feed of knowledge in real life rather than infodumping a whole level's worth of skills and you don't typically have to pay for your training at your work is a service to them unlike adventuring, but my senior coworker has to tell me 'hey, this is how you fill in and file these papers you've never had to deal with before' in the same way a fighter needs to be shown the specific way to perform a battle maneuvre before the first time they use it.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
No. It's saying, "What you are willing to put up with is a choice."

It's not about whether you like it or not. It's about whether you can put up with it. Which is a choice.

As long as you acknowledge "putting up with it" is what you're doing. Though even then,. there's a bridge too far for everyone, and this sounds like deciding what other people's should be.
 

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