D&D 5E So this is how D&D 5e dies, a beautiful start only to die in disgrace because of mismanagement. RIP 5e

[S'mon]

Bobby "I'm still the CEO, Losers," Kotick wants a word with you, S'mon.

I actually just said "Hasbro is not Activision" on the lawyer thread!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I actually just said "Hasbro is not Activision" on the lawyer thread!

That's an easy one. But it's not just that. Look at, inter alia, Facebook (Meta). They have five scandals a year that make the OGL thing look like chump change- but is anyone here canceling their account. Nope.

Amazon? I mean, treating workers nice would be good and all, but I gotta get my products and I gotta watch my Hobbit show!

How about just flat-out lying about things.... remember the VW Automotive group scandal? I do! Do you bank at Wells Fargo? Anyone keeping their own running tally of their fun? Do you watch the Paramount network to get your Star Trek goodness... well have you bothered looking at the long and disturbing toxic culture under Moonves? Johnson & Johnson? DuPont?

I get the desire to ramp all the rhetoric up to 11, for that extra push over the cliff, but it's getting to the point of parody. This might have been a terrible decision, but it doesn't come close to measuring up to the true corporate malfeasance we have seen.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like when people get tired of this discussion, they are probably better served bowing out and taking some time off rather than just lashing out at everyone.

 

[S'mon]

That's an easy one. But it's not just that. Look at, inter alia, Facebook (Meta). They have five scandals a year that make the OGL thing look like chump change- but is anyone here canceling their account. Nope.

Amazon? I mean, treating workers nice would be good and all, but I gotta get my products and I gotta watch my Hobbit show!

How about just flat-out lying about things.... remember the VW Automotive group scandal? I do! Do you bank at Wells Fargo? Anyone keeping their own running tally of their fun? Do you watch the Paramount network to get your Star Trek goodness... well have you bothered looking at the long and disturbing toxic culture under Moonves? Johnson & Johnson? DuPont?

I get the desire to ramp all the rhetoric up to 11, for that extra push over the cliff, but it's getting to the point of parody. This might have been a terrible decision, but it doesn't come close to measuring up to the true corporate malfeasance we have seen.

I dunno. I think this one feels a lot more personal. Facebook, well I don't actually directly give them any money. Maybe if they attacked me directly I'd cancel my account. (& Google/Youtube gets away with all kinds of terrible things, from my POV).
Amazon, sure they oppress their warehouse workers & their delivery folk - but they do actually provide me with a very valuable service for the money I give them. And I don't watch their hobbit show. I'm not involved with those other companies.

If it was a choice of "Support WoTC" or "No RPGs ever again", yeah I expect I'd fold. But WoTC are very much not Amazon. They're highly expendable.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I dunno. I think this one feels a lot more personal. Facebook, well I don't actually directly give them any money. Maybe if they attacked me directly I'd cancel my account. (& Google/Youtube gets away with all kinds of terrible things, from my POV).
Amazon, sure they oppress their warehouse workers & their delivery folk - but they do actually provide me with a very valuable service for the money I give them. And I don't watch their hobbit show. I'm not involved with those other companies.

If it was a choice of "Support WoTC" or "No RPGs ever again", yeah I expect I'd fold. But WoTC are very much not Amazon. They're highly expendable.

Eh, that's kind of the point.

Zeno: How can you keep doing business with Acme, Inc.? They literally drain the blood of their workers and their workers' children in order to make their smoothies?

Achilles: Sure, but their smoothies taste good!


The reason some companies are able to provide you with a valuable (and cheap, or free) service is because they do bad things. So no, it's not much of an argument to say, "I know that they do morally indefensible things, but it would be hard for me to care because their stuff is so cheap!"

As I have said- I find the OGL stuff (mildly) interesting. I can completely get behind someone like Morrus when he writes that WoTC isn't a trustworthy business partner anymore ... that, I get. It's kind of like way back when I first learned about efficient breaches in contracts- just because you can do something (legally) doesn't make it right.

But here's the thing- I remember the industry before the OGL. It was vibrant, and, if anything, more diverse (in terms of systems, not the other diversity). We never needed the OGL. If D&D doesn't want a vibrant professional 3PP community, well, that would suck, but we've been there before.

And none of this (none of it) comes close to actual corporate malfeasance that everyone here turns a blind eye to, for the most part.

 

[Parmandur]

That's an easy one. But it's not just that. Look at, inter alia, Facebook (Meta). They have five scandals a year that make the OGL thing look like chump change- but is anyone here canceling their account. Nope.

Amazon? I mean, treating workers nice would be good and all, but I gotta get my products and I gotta watch my Hobbit show!

How about just flat-out lying about things.... remember the VW Automotive group scandal? I do! Do you bank at Wells Fargo? Anyone keeping their own running tally of their fun? Do you watch the Paramount network to get your Star Trek goodness... well have you bothered looking at the long and disturbing toxic culture under Moonves? Johnson & Johnson? DuPont?

I get the desire to ramp all the rhetoric up to 11, for that extra push over the cliff, but it's getting to the point of parody. This might have been a terrible decision, but it doesn't come close to measuring up to the true corporate malfeasance we have seen.

Thuis right here gers at where I am: I bank with Wells Fargo and have Amazon Prine account (paid for itself for the Holidays), both of whom are terrible companies.

My boss drops more trouble than the OGL situation any given Tuesday, and yet I still keep working and collecting a oaycheck.

 

[Jaeger]

They have created a situation where the D&D brand is probably worth more outside of Hasbro & WoTC control, than in its now-tainted state. What social media influencer will want to associate with WoTC-D&D now?

Lots of them if the OneVTT hits big enough.

Yeah. That's right. Hasbro is totally tarnished because of, um, the long memories and completely scrupulous behaviors of social media influencers.

In further news, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you!

Kidding aside, is anyone here reading what they are writing? Do we really need to go through a list of corporate scandals from the past 5 years? And people are trying to say that ... this ... this .... has completely tainted the company?

...

There was the whole Magic Gate/Quartering scandal about WOTC's MtG volunteer Judge program's lack of screening for pedophiles and sex offenders, and there were a lot of them in the volunteer MtG Judge program.

A search for: The Quartering, Lou Colagiovanni, Magic gate - will get you plenty of icky reading on the subject...

Yet, MtG has done nothing but increase in sales to this day.

One should never underestimate the ability of people to forget.

 

[Jd Smith1]

You can have unlimited tap water in Flint, Michigan but would you rather drink from the local water supply or buy bottled water in that case?

 

[Jd Smith1]

No, I understand.

"It's just business' is code for 'I know that if it wasn't a company doing it, this wouldn't be acceptable."

This argument is like saying you're not being anti-ant if you're only kicking over their hills and crushing their nurseries because you don't look where you walk.

Man, you really don't understand business at all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think you've got wishful thinking. I believe the first step is to clear away the third party input, which rumor alone has gotten a solid head start. Next will come 6e or whatever they call it, with a strong push into online/remote gaming, and VTT-aided F2F gaming.

As you've noted yourself, a large number of gamers are already conditioned to pay for entertainment streams.

The curse of the current game model, as has been bemoaned here in this site, is that a gaming group often only contains one consistent purchaser: the GM. And pdfs are basically selling on the honor system, what with the file-sharing options.

I think WotC is planning on moving a big portion of the gaming community into the digital age.

I would change the word "planning" to "strong-arming", but otherwise I agree.