Is It Magic?

[GMMichael]

As I was escaping an ancient shrine set deep in a crevice the other day, I found a small tunnel that lead upward and promised to let me avoid backtracking through the entire cavern to exit. The tunnel was roughly carved, as though someone had cut the bare minimum amount of rock to create a hidden exit. After a short climb, I came to a lever set in the floor, a seeming dead-end. I pulled the lever, and somehow, a wall slid out of the way, further into the uncut rock, revealing a passageway to safety.

I had only one explanation for the mysteriously impossible masonry: magic.

It occurs to me that these sorts of things happen frequently in medieval fantasy: scenes that present themselves as perfectly normal, but would in reality be possible only with magic.

What odd events (tropes?) have you seen that some people take as "medieval" when it's better considered "magic?"

Here's another one:

A swordswoman cuts an arrow out of the air before it delivers her a fatal blow. Twice in a row. Is it magic?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

A swordswoman cuts an arrow out of the air before it delivers her a fatal blow. Twice in a row. Is it magic?

well, aside from the possibility of it just being dumb luck, what exactly are we considering "magic"? is magic specifically practices and rites that result in supernatural outcomes (i.e. casting spells or performing rituals), or is it anything supernatural at all (e.g. superhuman speed)? if magic is only the former, then i would say no, there's a good chance this isn't magic. if magic is the latter (and thus technically both), then again, aside from the possibility of this being dumb luck, it's very likely magic.

 

[Tonguez]

Neither of those are ostensibly magic, the swordsman just has incredible skill and the escapee has unbelievable luck. Narrativium is a powerful force beyond mere magic

 

[Haiku Elvis]

Well as Arthur C Clarke wrote

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"​

Therefore it is definitely Aliens.

 

[MNblockhead]

A few times since I've gotten back into D&D, I've gotten lost in on-line rabbit holes researching real life locks, traps, and secret doors from ancient to medieval times to mine ideas for my games. A lot of D&D trap tropes really can only be explained by magic or anachronisms. I'm fine with both in my games. D&D is not real history and it is a magic world.

Even with simple things like false floors and false walls, who is maintaining them? Amenhotep III's tomb's false floor pit trap depended on people living nearby, "paid in perpetuity", to replace the false floor when activated by looters.

One thing that has inspired me in my games from the real world is that instead of elaborate mechanical traps, poison gas etc., just coat loot in poison as some ancient cultures, like the Maya and Inca did (Cinnabar/mercury, for example, though likely more for decoration than as a "trap"). I'm not sure how long a neurotoxin will remain deadly, but I can hand-wave that, but then archaeologists are warned to take special precautions when encountering red pigments.

Or just poison the entire area with something like mercury, as was done in some ancient Chinese tombs. Qin Shi Huang's most famously, but also those of the Duke of Qi Huan and King Helu of Wu. I'm not sure that the use of cinnabar and mercury was really meant to deter looters, than as decoration or the belief in its preservation effects. In a sense, the way contact poison is used in D&D, at least in terms of various poison traps in ancient tombs and such have to be explained away as magic or some special fantasy poison that can retain its potency for great periods of time.

Mechanical traps, such as the crossbow traps recorded to have been placed in Qin Shi Huang's tomb are extremely unlikely to remain operation for long periods of time, even if plated in chromate.

Falling rock traps, like the Spanish death traps set to protect gold mines in the Americas could certainly be used in D&D as non-magical traps. Typically, they are just boulders propped up precariously. Sometimes complex wooden mechanisms were used to move boulders around. One could image complex mechanisms with more durable material like metal and stone being used in a D&D world. We don't have to be limited to what exists in the real world to think about what could have existed if anyone wanted to bother with more Indiana Jones style traps.

But Rube Goldberg style traps are a quintessential part of D&D and are fun. I like to look at what was done, or could have been done, in real-world historical periods as inspiration, but D&D traps fall apart under any scrutiny without magic.

 

[Dioltach]

I had only one explanation for the mysteriously impossible masonry: magic.

Are you asking whether someone in medieval times would have regarded the lever and door as magic? I doubt it. Levers and gears have been around for thousands of years, and people then were just as clever as they are now. Anyone who'd seen the portcullis or drawbridge of the local castle, or loading cranes on the docks, would understand the principle, if not the details.

As long as the door doesn't give a happy sigh and say, "Have a nice day. Share and enjoy!" I doubt many people would mistake it for magic.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Levers, doors, traps - for me those are just mechanisms. Unless the players are particularly inventive or it matters for some reason we just roll with it. I have used sprung traps, either from previous adventurers or mechanical failure. I call those my "overthinking" traps.

The lady cutting arrows out of the air? That's not magical either, but it is uncanny. Only the exceptional or highly trained can do so.

 

[GMMichael]

well, aside from the possibility of it just being dumb luck, what exactly are we considering "magic"?

I'm leaning toward "supernatural events caused by people or animals," but anything supernatural is either behind the magic-side of the line, or sitting on it.

Are you asking whether someone in medieval times would have regarded the lever and door as magic? I doubt it. Levers and gears have been around for thousands of years, and people then were just as clever as they are now. Anyone who'd seen the portcullis or drawbridge of the local castle, or loading cranes on the docks, would understand the principle, if not the details.

This was the kind of hidden door that would lead a clever person to be dumbfounded. A portcullis has significant amounts of human engineering surrounding it. The example just had a non-adjacent lever.

As long as the door doesn't give a happy sigh and say, "Have a nice day. Share and enjoy!" I doubt many people would mistake it for magic.

That's highly improbable.

Levers, doors, traps - for me those are just mechanisms. Unless the players are particularly inventive or it matters for some reason we just roll with it. I have used sprung traps, either from previous adventurers or mechanical failure. I call those my "overthinking" traps.

The lady cutting arrows out of the air? That's not magical either, but it is uncanny. Only the exceptional or highly trained can do so.

Uncanny = magic, at least in terms of Uncanny X-men. If I were playing an archer, and my target kept chopping my arrows out of the air, I'd expect some magic (or supernatural being) to be involved.

Baron reminds me of another possible magic encounter: perpetually self-reloading traps. Or anything in perpetual motion. Is it magic?

 

[Baron Opal II]

Uncanny = magic, at least in terms of Uncanny X-men. If I were playing an archer, and my target kept chopping my arrows out of the air, I'd expect some magic (or supernatural being) to be involved.

Baron reminds me of another possible magic encounter: perpetually self-reloading traps. Or anything in perpetual motion. Is it magic?

For me, uncanny are for those things that aren't magic but derived from skill or talent. It might be highly improbable, but it functions in an anti-magic field. But, that's me.

For self-reloading traps, is there a mechanism, however "Rube-y"? If no, then it is magical.

 

[Tonguez]

Uncanny = magic, at least in terms of Uncanny X-men. If I were playing an archer, and my target kept chopping my arrows out of the air, I'd expect some magic (or supernatural being) to be involved.

Baron reminds me of another possible magic encounter: perpetually self-reloading traps. Or anything in perpetual motion. Is it magic?

52 yr old Ozzy bushmen catching arrows


and Ive had ancient dungeons with corroded acid sprayers and otherwise broken traps