D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Clint_L]

I've seen a lot of bemoaning the later access to tiny wildshape forms ... but I'll point out that with Find Familiar as core feature now ... in some ways your scouting potential is better and safer. Telepathy and Remote Viewing are solid bonuses.

That's just not nearly as fun, IMO.

 

[OB1]

@Clint_L yeah, I've been focusing on the Tiny issue, but the three Animal forms also just don't have enough to make them interesting. You're whole stick is changing into a beast, but other than a bonus to STR and Keen Senses, you are far better off staying humanoid (whether Moon or any other sublclass). And how complex is the old way anyhow, especially if you use DDB. They've drained all the fun out of this class to make it 'simple'.

 

[Justice and Rule]

@Clint_L yeah, I've been focusing on the Tiny issue, but the three Animal forms also just don't have enough to make them interesting. You're whole stick is changing into a beast, but other than a bonus to STR and Keen Senses, you are far better off staying humanoid (whether Moon or any other sublclass). And how complex is the old way anyhow, especially if you use DDB. They've drained all the fun out of this class to make it 'simple'.

It's complex because it requires you to balance around any creature that could be used by Wildshape at every level. That's not only incredibly complicated, but also runs into the problem of encouraging certain forms because those ones are objectively better, thus taking away from creativity.

I think it's fair to say that they could add more options to things, but it's definitely a more manageable and easily-balanced version compared to what came before.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think Wildshape is going in the right direction now. But I don't think the different forms should be divided among environment such as: Animals of the Land, Sea and Air.

Rather I think the forms should be more purpose built like: Sentinel of the Wild, Behemoth of Nature, Primal Predator.

And then have at certain levels whether the form can climb, swim or fly.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't think they should just eliminate the ablative armour aspect of wild shape. That might have been a better way to go back in 2014, but after 10 years with it, taking it away fundamentally changes how the class plays. That's the core of playing a moon druid, in particular.

I think it's OP. But nerfing it to the ground like this is going to outrage players. I also think it makes druid an extremely weak class in general, and a much less interesting one. There has to be a middle way.

 

[OB1]

I think Wildshape is going in the right direction now. But I don't think the different forms should be divided among environment such as: Animals of the Land, Sea and Air.

Rather I think the forms should be more purpose built like: Sentinel of the Wild, Behemoth of Nature, Primal Predator.

And then have at certain levels whether the form can climb, swim or fly.

I like this direction. I think you need 4 forms to pick from at 1st level.

Scout - Tiny, no attack or magic, damage reverts you to normal form, speed 15, climb, perception advantage
Traveler - Small, your hp, speed 50, (can fly at 5th) 1d4 damage (no multiattack), don't provoke opportunity attacks, Dex save advantage
Predator - Medium, gain 2xPBTemp HP, Speed 40, 1d8 damage (multiattack at 5th), stealth/perception advantage, (Swim/water breathe 7th)
Sentinel - Large, gain 5xPB Temp HP, Speed 30 (fly at 9th), 1d12 damage (multiattack at 5th), STR advantage

 

[TwoSix]

How I'd do it:

1) Remove combat wildshape from the core druid, give only a tiny noncombat form as a wildshape (maybe use the find familiar block) available to the core class using Channel Nature.

2) Move combat wildshape to Moon Druid. Instead of Land, Sea, Air, give 3-4 templates with special abilities (a stalker, a skirmisher, a tank, etc.). Swim speed and fly speed are added to the stat block at higher levels, either by stat block design or specific subclass feature.

3) Give the ability to spend a spell slot when transforming to gain 10 temporary hit points per slot level.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think Wild Shape needs some form of defence. That doesn't mean it needs to be "You change to get temp hit points". (And I don't think that non-moon druids are "an extremely weak class in general"; they are a full caster and non-shapeshifters have gained power).

That said I'd make the following changes:

Level 5: Might of the Land. When you wildshape you may pick one offensive and one defensive adaption

• Offensive Options:
  • Multiattack: You may make two Bestial Strike attacks with an action
  • Big/Sharp: One attack, double damage
  • Venomous: When you hit wit a bestial strike your target must make a Con save (at your spell save DC) or take d8 + your wisdom damage and be poisoned until the end of next turn
  • Charging: When you move 20ft in a straight line before you attack gain advantage on the attack roll. If you hit the attack does double damage and the foe must make a save or be knocked down
  • Nuisance (covers e.g. wing buffets and webs): Range 10ft, the foe must make a wisdom save or be restrained until the end of your next turn. Everywhere within 5ft of your target counts ass difficult terrain.
• Defensive Adaptions:
  • Armoured (Exoskeleton/Scales/coating): Gain proficiency bonus to AC
  • Bulky: Gain Resistance against Bludgeoning Damage. Also gain Powerful Build, but you can't gain climb speed and your fly speed is halved
  • Fur/Feathers: Gain Resistance against slashing damage
  • Fast: Gain Resistance against Piercing damage and advantage on initiative checks
  • Chameleon: Gain advantage to stealth checks and initiative rolls

I think that fixes both the "everything's the same" feeling and the defensive issues.

Water form: Should be strong, not just agile.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Good analysis.
Moon druid should probably get a small armor upgrade for their wildshapes or a bit of thp. Other than that, I think they are very nice.

These are good suggestions.

I'd like to see Tiny form split in 2
Level 1 - Tiny form - When you use Wildshape in this way, your size is tiny, and you have a walk, climb, and fly speed of 10. You cannot take the attack or magic action in this form, and if you take any damage, your Wildshape ends immediately, reverting you to your previous from.
Level 11 - Improved Tiny form - As per the playtest doc

As is this -- keeping the tiny animal option is fun, and helps give a distinctive flavour to the class. Level 11 is really late to get this.

Another observation on WIldshaping that I don't think has been noted:

Short Rests only partially recharge Wild Shape now -- you get one use back on a short rest, not up to 2. I like that they haven't removed the value of short rests completely, but this feels like a meaningful change.

 

[mellored]

IMO

Moon druids: when you wild shape, select one of the following options to add to your form.
-charge attack.
-grapple
-THP
-extra speed
-the mount trait

At level 6 you can select 2 options, including the following.
-bonus proficiency in a save
-poison attack
-prone on an opportunity attack
-tremorsense
-web attack

At level 10, select a third option, including the following.
-elemental damage.
-elemental resistance

Or some such.