D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Kobold Stew]

The use of templates for the Wild Shpae forms is what I was expecting, and I think they've implemented them fairly well. Cosmetically, they are keeping fun by letting you play a tiny elephant or a Large rat, or whatever. You no longer have a hip-point-sink, which is good.

NOW...
I'm really interested in how they are determining the STR and DEX of the wild shape forms -- you keep your stats on CON which makes sense, since you are also keeping your own hit points), and INT, WIS, CHA as before. For the land form you (a) get to use your WIS for STR and DEX. The immediate implication of this is (b) to change your attack modifier and damage modifiers to your WIS score rather than STR or DEX... which of course is what happens anyways (+spell mod to hit, +WIS to damage). Both of these are the same: i.e. if we didn't have (b) it would still be true because of (a), and (a) is only going to come into play for out-of-combat uses of Strength and Dex.

Similarly, (c) your AC is 10+WIS, which is what it would be if you used your modified DEX in any case: again (a) and (c) are technically redundant in most contexts. They aren't for determining Initiative (where you are now adding your WIS bonus, since your WIS is your wild shaped DEX), and you add WIS to your skill checks for grapples, etc.

I've said they're redundant, but I'm not sure they are -- I think this is powerful design-wise.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I do not have a problem with templates, I'm not sure this would be the template option I would have chosen. I also have no problem with nerfing/massively changing the Moon Druid (honestly they and Shepherd Druids ran neck and neck with high-OP wizards in tendency to disrupt the game at various levels), but I'm really not sure what this new Moon Druid is for/about (they clearly aren't a mainline combatant/tank/damage-sink, but the moon-druid bonuses are still clearly focused on combat). I generally am in favor of the direction they are going, but I think they need to step back, forget about systems, and think long and hard about what exactly whildshape (as opposed to other channel natures) is supposed to be for non-moon druids, and then for moon druids.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well this one is the controversial part. Changes include:

• Wildshape uses your personal hit points rather than being ablative armour
• It's no longer a near mandatory ability; there are two other Channel Nature options. One of which is Find Familiar and the other healing.
• You get one statblock (or three later; land, water, air)
• You can make it look how you want
• It doesn't get much in the way of special abilities
• Land forms only get multiattack and climb speed at level 5; you only get aquatic at 7 and flying at 9
• Tiny only at level 11 meaning no bypassing soooo many things
• Level 13 lets you switch in and out of wild shape as a bonus without losing the wild shape as long as you go back within a minute
• Circle of the Moon now needs its fluff text re-written and probably the name changed because it's now the weird wild shapes for combat. Kinda always was, but this isn't pretending to be natural.
  • Level 3 lets you Unarmed Strike (read: grapple/push/trip) as a bonus action. Technically you can't grapple without hands. (You're also only good at grappling, pushing, and tripping in land form). This is where things like a tripping wolf go.
  • Level 3 also lets you use abjuration spells including healing while wild shaped.
  • Level 6 lets you add elements to the mix, partly cosmetically, partly you get elemental resistance and may do elemental damage
  • Level 10 is a straight up elemental damage buff.
  • Level 14 is the old Thousand Faces.

The overall changes to non-moon druids are that they've lost ablative temp HP from Wildshape and personal tiny spider scouting but gained a free fey familiar and extra healing. Circle of the Moon has gone from one of the tankiest things in the game to probably the flimsiest - but with a whole lot of cool effects.

It's absolute trash.

Everything genuinely good, powerful, or fun about wildshape is out the window. You can't even turn into a mouse until level 11, which is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and there's no ability to pick interesting or unusual forms for their benefits, and the lack of temp HP makes it truly worthless.

They've taken a moderately powerful ability, and nerfed into complete World of Warcraft junk. This is 1/10 stuff.

I'll say this for them - they've guaranteed I'll actually do feedback for this one.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Exactly. The druid going into dangerous territory as a spider or a rat has created so many memorable moments in campaigns over the years. I'd hate to lose that for the sake of simplicity.

Pretty sure all the people praising this have either never played Druids for any significant period of time, or are not really thinking through the issues. Tiny isn't even a simplicity issue - it's a bizarre nerf for no good reason, and one that flies in the face of all recent editions of D&D (including 5E!).

None of the other classes we've seen so far is losing a basic, common ability in that way.

I'd like to see Tiny form split in 2
Level 1 - Tiny form - When you use Wildshape in this way, your size is tiny, and you have a walk, climb, and fly speed of 10. You cannot take the attack or magic action in this form, and if you take any damage, your Wildshape ends immediately, reverting you to your previous from.
Level 11 - Improved Tiny form - As per the playtest doc

That'd be a lot better. Though I'd suggest a faster speed, particularly for flying - 10' is just insanely slow. That's limping pace - any bird or even insect flying that slowly (rather than hovering-moving-hovering) would attract attention.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I've seen a lot of bemoaning the later access to tiny wildshape forms ... but I'll point out that with Find Familiar as core feature now ... in some ways your scouting potential is better and safer. Telepathy and Remote Viewing are solid bonuses.

That's profoundly missing the point. Yeah, you can do that - but that's not what a Druid does. That's what a Wizard, Bard, Sorcerer, or any number of people with Feats do, and they can do it better than you, too, because their familiars are permanent. And literally everyone who can access the spell will have a familiar now, because spells are all preparation-based.

 

[TwoSix]

They've taken a moderately powerful ability, and nerfed into complete World of Warcraft junk. This is 1/10 stuff.

To be fair, druids in WoW are extremely popular and quite powerful.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

To be fair, druids in WoW are extremely popular and quite powerful.

Yes, sorry, I should point out "like a total trash version of a WoW Druid". I play a Druid when I play WoW to be clear. I got severely triggered by Aquatic Form (literally the same name as WoW), and Aerial Form is just a thesaurus of Flight Form. At least a WoW Moon Druid-equivalent (Guardian/Feral) is a good strong tank or DPS.

The whole approach is soulless and idiotic, frankly. It makes WoW look particularly charming by comparison.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes, sorry, I should point out "like a total trash version of a WoW Druid". I play a Druid when I play WoW to be clear. I got severely triggered by Aquatic Form (literally the same name as WoW), and Aerial Form is just a thesaurus of Flight Form.

The whole approach is soulless and idiotic, frankly. It makes WoW look particularly charming by comparison.

I’ll be worried once there’s a subclass that can cast Flame Strike and Scorching Ray in owlbear form.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It's absolute trash.

Everything genuine good about wildshape is out the window. You can't even turn into a mouse until level 11, which is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and there's no ability to pick interesting or unusual forms for their benefits, and the lack of temp HP makes it truly worthless.

They've taken a moderately powerful ability, and nerfed into complete World of Warcraft junk. This is 1/10 stuff.

The idea that the temp hp was what made the wildshape good shows just how badly they missed the mark with the old wildshape. It was honestly the least thematic thing I could think of. At least they're trying something other than "I shrug on my bear coat as ablative armour". And not making every druid try to wild shape. Also "Make the rogue redundant by being a better scout" needed to go.

Yes, I agree that it needs more. But it's still an improvement over the old version.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I've seen a lot of bemoaning the later access to tiny wildshape forms ... but I'll point out that with Find Familiar as core feature now ... in some ways your scouting potential is better and safer. Telepathy and Remote Viewing are solid bonuses.

It's mostly to make the druid no longer the best infiltrator. Familiars are good for spying, less so for "turn into a mouse, go into the base, pick up an item, and mouse form out".

Wild Shape gave a TON of utility to a class that already had 9 levels of spellcasting AND other abilities. Honestly too much IMO. I think some decent design space would be adding specific animal shape spells, and leaving wild shape as the more watered down version.