A New "anti-D&D" Era

[Reynard]

In the late 80s and early 90s, the tide of the TTRPG world turned against D&D. White Wolf's the World of Darkness was the most prominent alternative, but there was a big push of new games. We got new editions of classics that had appeared shortly after D&D, as well as a lot of brand new ideas. Unlike a lot of current innovation, much of which rely on just a couple systems like PbtA and previously Fate along with things like Free League's and Modiphius' house systems, most of those 90s games came out with new, unique, often baffling game systems attached to equally new, unique and baffling worlds.

I feel like we could be at the start of a new 90s in regards to an era where D&D is less popular and there is a new surge of innovation. MCDM looks to be leading the charge, and I think some of the companies that were considering making D&D clones might adjust their plans and do something new given that 5E under Creative Commons is now safe to publish for again. Those that want to publish for 5E will, but those that want to make their own games will have to do more than make a slightly different 5E to succeed.

I for one would love it if a new era of pushing back against 5E and D&D's dominance commenced, coupled with a renaissance in new system design.

 

[Bedrockgames]

In the late 80s and early 90s, the tide of the TTRPG world turned against D&D. White Wolf's the World of Darkness was the most prominent alternative, but there was a big push of new games. We got new e3ditions of classics that had appeared shortly after D&D, as well as a lot of brand new ideas. Unlike a lot of current innovation, much of which rely on just a couple systems like PbtA and previously Fate along with things like Free League's and Modiphius' house systems, most of those 90s games came out with new, unique, often baffling game systems attached to equally new, unique and baffling worlds.

I remember these days quite well. You didn't quite have the landscape you do today, as you point out. One of my favorites from that period was TORG but there were a lot of really great games and settings. I also remember White wolf giving D&D a big run for its money.

I feel like we could be at the start of a new 90s in regards to an era where D&D is less popular and there is a new surge of innovation. MCDM looks to be leading the charge, and I think some of the companies that were considering making D&D clones might adjust their plans and do something new given that 5E under Creative Commons is now safe to publish for again. Those that want to publish for 5E will, but those that want to make their own games will have to do more than make a slightly different 5E to succeed.

I for one would love it if a new era of pushing back against 5E and D&D's dominance commenced, coupled with a renaissance in new system design.

It is hard to say how things will play out this time around. The environment is very different. And it is still hard to evaluate the full impact of the OGL thing. It would be nice to see a wider variety of viable systems break into the mainstream more. I also wouldn't mind more unique systems-settings

 

[TerraDave]

I agree with the first para, not sure about the second.

I also remember those days well. WoD, GURPS, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, TORG, Palladium games, CoC, different versions of Traveller...these were all relatively popular. Many groups would play multiple systems. D&D on the other hand was splatty, felt dated, and TSR (or T$R) would frequently attacks its own fans.

But apparently the overall hobby was becoming more and more niche, and then got hit pretty hard by Magic. I think by 2000 there was a feeling that the whole thing was on the edge.

Now things are very different. D&D can decline from a very high peak. Thats possible. But open gaming and the next big tier of companies--listed in the OP--will probably continue to dominate. Its not like there are no new games, in fact there seems to be tons of them. But those network effects and all that seem to make it very hard to break out or gain much of a following.

 

[Parmandur]

Powered by the Apocalypse is now in Target.

 

[Reynard]

Powered by the Apocalypse is now in Target.

That's no doubt due to it being Avatar (not the blue space cat one, the other one) but it's still a good thing. People discovering the hobby by way of things that aren't D&D can only help. I am actually curious to see that starter set, mostly to find out how they teach roleplaying by way of PbtA.

That said, I am hoping for a lot more innovation that yet another variation on PbtA.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I think the fates of "5e" and "D&D" diverged the day WotC released the 5e SRD under creative commons, and the divergence will only increase over time. And thus anti-D&Dism and anti-5eism will diverge more over time. For every designer who took the OGL fiasco as time to reevaluate their relationship with D&D and 5e and realized the day had come to forge their own game from scratch, I think there is another thinking about how they can capitalize on WotC abandoning a wildly popular game with a vast install base in favor of an aimless remix thereof, while at the same time giving the core of it away to anyone who wants to make their own remix. There will be lots of 5e games long after D&D ceases to be one of them.

Which is all to say that I am, myself a 5e cloner, and I plan to keep right on keeping on with playing 5e in both original and clone flavors, but I still would count myself as part of an "anti-D&D" movement in that OneD&D is the 5e clone I have the least interest in or hope for, and I am very much doing my own thing with my clone, just not from scratch.

 

[Retreater]

MCDM looks to be leading the charge, and I think some of the companies that were considering making D&D clones might adjust their plans and do something new given that 5E under Creative Commons is now safe to publish for again.

I mean, whatever MCDM is going to do is WAY off in the future. Pathfinder 2E is selling gangbusters. Kobold Press's Black Flag has started a public playtest. Cubicle 7 has a system on Kickstarter. EN Publishing created Level Up even before the fiasco.
I don't see MCDM as leading any more than the other companies.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

how they can capitalize on WotC abandoning a wildly popular game with a vast install base in favor of an aimless remix thereof, while at the same time giving the core of it away to anyone who wants to make their own remix.

This is kinda nonsensical given the fact that they aren’t abandoning 5e, the revised core books are neither aimless nor a remix, just an update or revision.

All those new remixes are going to feed into 5e as published by wizards. Look at what Kobold press put out for their new “core fantasy game”. It’s compatible with 5e characters, so far, as is everything in the new wotc playtest.

Perhaps you have noticed that they’ve stopped even calling it the OneDnD Playtest, and instead refer to it in videos and in the latest UA, as either simply “this unearthed arcana series” or “the playtest for the 2024 PHB” or similar.

Because it’s not a new game, and all the CC D&D coming out will reference a Creative Commons license that leads back to wotc D&D , using rules structures that will be shared with that game.

The diversion you’re so sure of is…very unlikely, IMO.

 

[Parmandur]

That's no doubt due to it being Avatar (not the blue space cat one, the other one) but it's still a good thing. People discovering the hobby by way of things that aren't D&D can only help. I am actually curious to see that starter set, mostly to find out how they teach roleplaying by way of PbtA.

That said, I am hoping for a lot more innovation that yet another variation on PbtA.

Powered by the Apocalypse, IMO, might be the single most viable competitor to D&D I'm the history of RPGs, particularly in the age of streaming.

 

[Parmandur]

This is kinda nonsensical given the fact that they aren’t abandoning 5e, the revised core books are neither aimless nor a remix, just an update or revision.

All those new remixes are going to feed into 5e as published by wizards. Look at what Kobold press put out for their new “core fantasy game”. It’s compatible with 5e characters, so far, as is everything in the new wotc playtest.

Perhaps you have noticed that they’ve stopped even calling it the OneDnD Playtest, and instead refer to it in videos and in the latest UA, as either simply “this unearthed arcana series” or “the playtest for the 2024 PHB” or similar.

Because it’s not a new game, and all the CC D&D coming out will reference a Creative Commons license that leads back to wotc D&D , using rules structures that will be shared with that game.

The diversion you’re so sure of is…very unlikely, IMO.

Thus fulfilling Ryan Dancey's original goal for the OGL.