What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Jd Smith1]

Does it need to be? Roleplaying is a good was to explore history though, I mean you see re-enactments, you often have actors playing historic roles at castles and stately homes. Kids do roleplaying in history class.

So it might not be the best vehicle, but it is certainly one that is commonly used to explore real history.

LIke I said, my group has been playing in 1776-7 (so far). In addition to group notes in the adventure log, I have posted current 'news', while the PCs are only moderately invested in the Revolution [they have taken (tiny) part in several historical battles], they have been watching the 'news' intently. Its really brought the period to life for all of us. Howe's inexplicable choices in '77, the brilliant plan to break the rebels that was thrown away, Benedict Arnolds' heroic period...there is so much going on.

Alongwith the usual PC money-grubbing, self-serving, and generally despicable behavior. Its an RPG, after all.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

As you should, but then I don't expect historical accuracy in a form of entertainment like I might expect in a peer reviewed article from an academic journal. In most games, I'm just looking for verisimilitude.


That's all part of the adolescent fantasy which is part of the appeal I think. I've often found players who are used to D&D have some cultural shock when they play another game where they're obligated to follow rules or respect authority figures unless they want to suffer some serious consequences. I still remember a Vampire player bitterly complaining that the Prince was being unfair. Yeah, that's kind of how Vampire society works. It sucks!

I think that the shock would extend beyond just D&D players, entire genres of games have created a lawless space for PC to operate like the street culture of Cyberpunk/Shadowrun.
One of the things that bothered me about the Expanse when I first encountered it was: Why did the Belters exist? Then I found out that it started as a potential game world and then it made sense. The Belt was the place with sketchy law enforcement where the PCs hang out.

It is further reinforced by both Hollywood and video games where even officers of the law can cause all the collateral damage they want with impunity.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

So, aping an ape.

That's a bit harsh, No?

 

[Irlo]

Rome was build on the back of slaves and conquest. I can't really see how you can have a imperial rome without those aspects unless your idea of rome is people wearing togas.
Especially today as portraying cultures accurately is such a hot topic.

Dwarves in togas, actually. . But I was talking about fantasy RPGs, not historically accurate ones. I don’t think exploring how I might model a Rome-like dwarven empire without slavery is appropriate for this thread. Another time, perhaps.

And viking culture was defined by going outwards to explore, trade, work and raid. Them now defending their lands changes everyrhing, including having iconic things like longships.

It doesn’t change everything. It doesn’t change the expanding, exploring, trading, and working.

How many people have run a pirate game without you ever stealing something?
Yes you can technically have something like that abomination Pirates of the Carribean, but I refuse to call that pirates.

Well, sure. Piracy = theft. But you could run a pirate RPG without scurvy and sexual assault. Those are real life things that don’t have to be included in a game.

That’s my point. We chose what to include. It might behoove us to give some of that a little extra care and intention.

 

[Imaro]

I remember reading a few articles and threads about this topic back when Wizards of the Coast began including the Legacy Content disclaimer on some of the old TSR pdfs. I remember thinking "we aren't losing anything. It's the same work, they just rubber-stamped a disclaimer on the first page...and a very milquetoast disclaimer at that. Nothing is going anywhere."

I still feel the same way, more or less. Republishing the Dark Sun campaign setting, for example, isn't going to un-publish the original 1991 books. Some people are going to prefer the original version, for various reasons, and they will still be able to find, purchase, read, and play them. Nothing is "lost."

But there is plenty to gain. Continuing the Dark Sun example: by updating it to the new rules set, updating the artwork, and updating the tone, they can introduce an entire new generation (and a much larger generation) to the setting. Releasing Dark Sun without updating it would make Wizards of the Coast look tone-deaf and out of touch, it would tarnish the product line, and it would alienate an entire generation of potential players. For better or worse, Wizards of the Coast is the TTRPG industry leader and they have to act like it. (And let's be honest: they already don't have a stellar record in this department, and all eyes are on them at the moment.)

Part of me wonders just how much there really is to gain though... Sword and Sorcery, much less Sword and Sandal fiction isn't exactly leaping off the shelves these days or having block buster movies made for it. I think it would mostly be a nostalgia product and the question then would be... how many people are going to buy it after WotC updates it.

 

[CleverNickName]

Part of me wonders just how much there really is to gain though... Sword and Sorcery, much less Sword and Sandal fiction isn't exactly leaping off the shelves these days or having block buster movies made for it. I think it would mostly be a nostalgia product and the question then would be... how many people are going to buy it after WotC updates it.

All of this is true. My point was that no matter how much is gained, it will still be greater than (or equal to) what is lost. Because the loss is zero.

 

[Umbran]

That's a bit harsh, No?

When one core argument is, "But this is real history!" but what is happening is an interpretation of a novel from 1980? Maybe being a bit direct is called for.

 

[Umbran]

All of this is true. My point was that no matter how much is gained, it will still be greater than (or equal to) what is lost. Because the loss is zero.

The term "opportunity cost" applies. Reworking the setting does not come for free, so if you do this, you lose ability to do whatever else you might have done with those resources.

 

[MGibster]

I think that the shock would extend beyond just D&D players, entire genres of games have created a lawless space for PC to operate like the street culture of Cyberpunk/Shadowrun.

You're absolutely right. I remember reading an example of what a Cyberpunk 2020 session might look like, and it included the PC getting roughed up by some goons of the people he owed money to. No way in hell would any of my players allow that to happen to their character without escalating to deadly force.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

You're absolutely right. I remember reading an example of what a Cyberpunk 2020 session might look like, and it included the PC getting roughed up by some goons of the people he owed money to. No way in hell would any of my players allow that to happen to their character without escalating to deadly force.

Which is why I like the idea of games that have mechanics that allow the referee make hard move like that even if I have never had the opportunity to see such play in action.