D&D 5E Is the stun from Psychic Scream permanent if it is impossible to make the save?

[jgsugden]

I think that's all fair and up to DM determination.

My larger question is how often is this coming up in people's campaigns? It seems very situational.

The 'sub-object' approach? In games that think about it and look for opportunities to use it? Reasonably often, and sometimes in very profitable or important ways. In games where people do not realize you can do it? Not often at all.

 

[seebs]

It's not the object that is limited to 1 foot in size, it's the break. "As long as the break or tear is no larger than 1 foot in any dimension, you mend it". It could fix a 1 foot hole in a battleship.

Right. But a break across a 1-foot-wide plank is no larger than one foot across. So, the whole bridge has every plank broken, but each individual break is small enough to mend.

 

[Clint_L]

Okay, the mending spell has fascinating metaphysical implications.

Like, imagine this scenario:

You have a beautiful rug in your wizard tower, but one day a bunch of adventurers come in to raid your place, and in the course of the battle a large hole, exactly one meter in diameter, is burned into the rug. Afterwards, you think about throwing the rug out, since the hole is too big to fix with a mending spell. But your grandma gave it to you, and the hole actually improves it in some ways, since you are able to put a round end table right in the middle.

So you keep the rug. Years later, you notice that the edges of the the hole have become a bit frayed in one spot, only a few centimetres wide. Can you cast mending spell to fix that frayed spot? Remember, that edge of the rug was originally created by damage to the rug that exceeded mending's ability to fix.

 

[tomBitonti]

Okay, the mending spell has fascinating metaphysical implications.

Like, imagine this scenario:

You have a beautiful rug in your wizard tower, but one day a bunch of adventurers come in to raid your place, and in the course of the battle a large hole, exactly one meter in diameter, is burned into the rug. Afterwards, you think about throwing the rug out, since the hole is too big to fix with a mending spell. But your grandma gave it to you, and the hole actually improves it in some ways, since you are able to put a round end table right in the middle.

So you keep the rug. Years later, you notice that the edges of the the hole have become a bit frayed in one spot, only a few centimetres wide. Can you cast mending spell to fix that frayed spot? Remember, that edge of the rug was originally created by damage to the rug that exceeded mending's ability to fix.

And we run into the problem of actual physics vs use of language in physically imprecise ways.

This is not unique to the mending spell.

Let's modify the example: A single 10 yard ball of yarn (which fits in less than a 1' cube) is used to create a small (less than 1' square) cloth. During that creation, the yarn is cut several times. Can mending be cast on the cloth with the intent of repairing the original ball of yarn? If the cloth is torn, will mending simply repair the tear, or will it repair all of the cuts that were made when creating the cloth?

From a slightly different perspective: If the cloth is torn, that makes it a defective cloth. Defective merchandise. If you bought this cloth under current US laws, you could return it for a refund or replacement. Considering the cloth without a tear as a defective ball of yarn seems very strange.

I think mending will normally repair the tear in the cloth, and will not normally repair the cloth back into a ball of yarn. Then, mending is informed as to what the caster thinks is the undamaged state of the target. If the hole in the rug has become part of the undamaged state of the rug, casting mending should return the rug to its unfrayed state, leaving in the hole.

Note that this is a complex thing to do: Mending needs to figure out a length for each of the now frayed threads.

TomB

 

[Paul Farquhar]

....how is ice not an object?

I interpret the spell as working on manufactured objects. You can't, for example, use it to re-attach a broken branch to a tree. But that's my interpretation of the word "object" in the spell description. As with most of these out of combat effects, its up to the DM to interpret.

Personally, as DM, I like to encourage the creative use of spells, skills and tools in overcoming environmental challenges.

If you use the Mending spell to repair every part of the Ship of Theseus, one foot at a time, is it still the same ship?

 

[James Gasik]

I interpret the spell as working on manufactured objects. You can't, for example, use it to re-attach a broken branch to a tree. But that's my interpretation of the word "object" in the spell description. As with most of these out of combat effects, its up to the DM to interpret.

Personally, as DM, I like to encourage the creative use of spells, skills and tools in overcoming environmental challenges.

If you use the Mending spell to repair every part of the Ship of Theseus, one foot at a time, is it still the same ship?

So if I pick up a hunk of tree in the forest to use as a club, and it would happen to crack in battle, you'd say someone couldn't use Mending on it?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So if I pick up a hunk of tree in the forest to use as a club, and it would happen to crack in battle, you'd say someone couldn't use Mending on it?

Is it, in plain English, an object? Would you, in plain English, describe a tree, or the ice on the surface of a lake, as an object?

 

[James Gasik]

Is it, in plain English, an object? Would you, in plain English, describe a tree, or the ice on the surface of a lake, as an object?

I remember a conversation like this back in 3e, about whether or not a corpse was an object. But if we're going by plain English, well:

Object: a material thing that can be seen and touched.

Material: the matter from which a thing is or can be made.

Thing: an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being.

Sentient: able to perceive or feel things.

Ok, so, ice counts. The water of a lake counts. A tree, well, it's up to debate, but a fallen branch is definitely an object.

 

[ECMO3]

Can you cast mending spell to fix that frayed spot? Remember, that edge of the rug was originally created by damage to the rug that exceeded mending's ability to fix.

This is easy to answer: It depends on if the one omnipotent being who controls all metaphysics (aka the DM) wants to hole to be fixed.

If he does then it is able to be fixed. If he doesn't then it is not able to be fixed.

 

[Clint_L]

And we run into the problem of actual physics vs use of language in physically imprecise ways.

This is not unique to the mending spell.

Let's modify the example: A single 10 yard ball of yarn (which fits in less than a 1' cube) is used to create a small (less than 1' square) cloth. During that creation, the yarn is cut several times. Can mending be cast on the cloth with the intent of repairing the original ball of yarn? If the cloth is torn, will mending simply repair the tear, or will it repair all of the cuts that were made when creating the cloth?

From a slightly different perspective: If the cloth is torn, that makes it a defective cloth. Defective merchandise. If you bought this cloth under current US laws, you could return it for a refund or replacement. Considering the cloth without a tear as a defective ball of yarn seems very strange.

I think mending will normally repair the tear in the cloth, and will not normally repair the cloth back into a ball of yarn. Then, mending is informed as to what the caster thinks is the undamaged state of the target. If the hole in the rug has become part of the undamaged state of the rug, casting mending should return the rug to its unfrayed state, leaving in the hole.

Note that this is a complex thing to do: Mending needs to figure out a length for each of the now frayed threads.

TomB

Yes - this is what becomes so interesting about the spell: it's efficacy seems to be dependent upon the current perspective of the caster.