D&D (2024) A simpler game is a better game...for us

[DEFCON 1]

Do you think we're likely to? WotC has made its position pretty clear I think.

Not from WotC. But we don't need it to be from WotC. Other companies are just fine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I know a lot of people want their crunch. The creation of Pathfinder when 4e came out kinda proves it (well, one of the reasons anyway). But people also want easy to learn and play. Since I released Bugbears&Borderlands only a few months ago, I have had a lot of people tell me it's exactly what they wanted out of the game, and I've even seen a Youtube streamer now use it for their game they play with kids. Those of us who have played with or taught kids know that they don't have the same limits on what they can do (same preconceived notions), and they come up with some really wild ideas that are cool, crazy, and fun. A simplified system supports that kind of play. They don't look at their character sheet looking to see if they have a skill for something and if they don't they forget about it, they just say they want to do it and it might just be a simple ability check.

Unfortunately, the people who want crunch and the people who want simple are usually not the same people, and WotC refuses to cater to both groups.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not from WotC. But we don't need it to be from WotC. Other companies are just fine.

True, but that doesn't make 6e a good base.

 

[James Gasik]

How does that even work, since they got money from both editions? I.e., any sales lost of AD&D to Basic still went into the TSR coffers. It seems to be the opposite. They created Basic as an afterthought thinking it wouldn't make any money so they could lower the royalties to Dave. But it ended up selling like hotcakes and being super popular.

Because people who buy Basic books aren't people who are buying AD&D books. So you're printing twice as many books, hiring twice as many people to write said books, and spending twice as much (possibly) on marketing. So right now, 100% of 5e players buy WotC books.

If we have two games with double the books, and 50% buy one game and 50% buy the other, you make 50% of the profit.

 

[James Gasik]

And yet we got two great games put of it. A clear consumer win!

Until the end result was we got no more books.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Until the end result was we got no more books.

It was fun while it lasted, and it lasted for a good while. This is why 2e was my favorite edition.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Because people who buy Basic books aren't people who are buying AD&D books.

Well, this just isn't true lol. Not even close. Almost every person I know who started with basic (which includes myself) also bought the AD&D books. And while there are some diehard fans who still only play basic, the vast majority moved onto 1e. And all of us, even the die hard basic fans, still use 1e resources (like adventures) because it's not hard to convert them.

So you're printing twice as many books, hiring twice as many people to write said books, and spending twice as much (possibly) on marketing. So right now, 100% of 5e players buy WotC books.

If we have two games with double the books, and 50% buy one game and 50% buy the other, you make 50% of the profit.

You need to design two games. You need to print two sets of books in lower numbers. You have people confused why their expansion x does not play nice with their book.
I was confused back then when I played Stronghold and the D&D rules were not the ones I knew...

I think it would be a bit easier nowadays, because you can manage it online. But it still needs to be well considered.

All evidence shows that instead of having prohibitive costs like you're both suggesting, B/X and BECMI brought in more players than would have joined if there was only AD&D that more than offset those additional design costs. Just look at the sales numbers. They don't lie.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Until the end result was we got no more books.

Not because of Basic vs Advanced brought about problems, but because of other unrelated management decisions that were disastrous to the company as a whole.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, this just isn't true lol. Not even close. Almost every person I know who started with basic (which includes myself) also bought the AD&D books. And while there are some diehard fans who still only play basic, the vast majority moved onto 1e. And all of us, even the die hard basic fans, still use 1e resources (like adventures) because it's not hard to convert them.



All evidence shows that instead of having prohibitive costs like you're both suggesting, B/X and BECMI brought in more players than would have joined if there was only AD&D that more than offset those additional design costs. Just look at the sales numbers. They don't lie.

I certainly bought both. That's how I got started back in the '80s.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

All evidence shows that instead of having prohibitive costs like you're both suggesting, B/X and BECMI brought in more players than would have joined if there was only AD&D that more than offset those additional design costs. Just look at the sales numbers. They don't lie.

Problem is: we have no alternate reality to compare it with. So maybe you are right. Maybe having only one game would have been even better.