D&D (2024) A simpler game is a better game...for us

[Micah Sweet]

A simplified game will bring more players in, but they are likely to lose interest more quickly and leave.

People will get bored of wading in the shallow water.

A certain level of complexity is needed to generate a certain level of commitment (and retention). Where that line is dawn is up for debate.

Maybe they care less about commitment and more about people just buying the books and all the bling they're trying to sell. If they move on after giving them money, they still got the money.

 

[Sacrosanct]

maybe they should print 2 PHBs at once,

Maybe they should have two editions. They could call one of them "Basic D&D". They could get Zeb Cook to write it...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Do you think we're likely to? WotC has made its position pretty clear I think.

It does not have to be from WotC. It will be easier for everyone to build upon a soldified game.

 

[James Gasik]

Maybe they should have two editions. They could call one of them "Basic D&D". They could get Zeb Cook to write it...

Sadly, when TSR tried to have two versions of D&D concurrently, they ended up competing against themselves and lost money.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sadly, when TSR tried to have two versions of D&D concurrently, they ended up competing against themselves and lost money.

How does that even work, since they got money from both editions? I.e., any sales lost of AD&D to Basic still went into the TSR coffers. It seems to be the opposite. They created Basic as an afterthought thinking it wouldn't make any money so they could lower the royalties to Dave. But it ended up selling like hotcakes and being super popular.

 

[Sacrosanct]

However, I do agree with @Shardstone that it tends to be easier to start with a simpler foundation and then let other companies build upon it, rather than have a more complex game and companies try to strip components away to create a simpler one. It can be done, obviously (as we have Level Up going in one direction and @Sacrosanct 's game going the other for instance)...

I know a lot of people want their crunch. The creation of Pathfinder when 4e came out kinda proves it (well, one of the reasons anyway). But people also want easy to learn and play. Since I released Bugbears&Borderlands only a few months ago, I have had a lot of people tell me it's exactly what they wanted out of the game, and I've even seen a Youtube streamer now use it for their game they play with kids. Those of us who have played with or taught kids know that they don't have the same limits on what they can do (same preconceived notions), and they come up with some really wild ideas that are cool, crazy, and fun. A simplified system supports that kind of play. They don't look at their character sheet looking to see if they have a skill for something and if they don't they forget about it, they just say they want to do it and it might just be a simple ability check.

 

[Vaalingrade]

in the abstract you are correct, it can become too simplistic. I see no indication that 1DD is that however.

Because 5e already did it.

5.5 is just getting on the top rope and preparing to finish the job by messing up casters too.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

How does that even work, since they got money from both editions? I.e., any sales lost of AD&D to Basic still went into the TSR coffers. It seems to be the opposite. They created Basic as an afterthought thinking it wouldn't make any money so they could lower the royalties to Dave. But it ended up selling like hotcakes and being super popular.

You need to design two games. You need to print two sets of books in lower numbers. You have people confused why their expansion x does not play nice with their book.
I was confused back then when I played Stronghold and the D&D rules were not the ones I knew...

I think it would be a bit easier nowadays, because you can manage it online. But it still needs to be well considered.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It does not have to be from WotC. It will be easier for everyone to build upon a soldified game.

You can add 3pp stuff to more complex games too. I too it with Level Up as a matter of course.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sadly, when TSR tried to have two versions of D&D concurrently, they ended up competing against themselves and lost money.

And yet we got two great games put of it. A clear consumer win!