RPG Crowdfunding News – Shadowdark, Little Game Masters, Forge of Foes, and more

dave2008 · Mar 16, 2023

Charles Dunwoody said:
I'm not Egg, but I do have thoughts. D&D 5E isn't really about dangerous dungeon crawling.

Sure WotC 5e is not, but the game engine itself certainly supports that style of play if you want. I think Shadowdark is a great example if dangerous 5e.

Charles Dunwoody said:
The OSR, on the other hand, heavily supports that stye of play. So Shadowdark, even though it uses many modern innovations, is more like what would have happened if the ideas of Basic D&D had survived into 2023 instead of trying to recreate gaming from 1983. What would Basic D&D look like if created today basically. So OSR in spirit but with mechanics brought into the modern world.

And things that worked in the past and in the current OSR, like having four basic classes, have been retained. So if modern D&D made something more complex or hard to run, Shadowdark likely went with an earlier version of rules as a base instead of 5E.

Well it very specifically uses the (dis)advantage mechanic so it has to at least be partially based on the 5e SRD, so I guess I just looked at the whole thing as a riff off 5e.

Also, the character creation, classes, level structure, etc. are basically the same as 5e IIRC.

Charles Dunwoody · Mar 16, 2023

dave2008 said:
Sure WotC 5e is not, but the game engine itself certainly supports that style of play if you want. I think Shadowdark is a great example if dangerous 5e.

Well it very specifically uses the (dis)advantage mechanic so it has to at least be partially based on the 5e SRD, so I guess I just looked at the whole thing as a riff off 5e.

Also, the character creation, classes, level structure, etc. are basically the same as 5e IIRC.

Agreed. It adds good things from 5E to the classic D&D chassis. Character creation is more OSR with 3d6 in order as the default and only four classes but it has 5E advantage/disadvantage. It doesn't have skills or feats like more classic D&D but it added in a version of death saves. It is a blend really, with some of its own innovations as well like the torch rule.

dave2008 · Mar 16, 2023

Charles Dunwoody said:
Agreed. It adds good things from 5E to the classic D&D chassis. Character creation is more OSR with 3d6 in order as the default and only four classes but it has 5E advantage/disadvantage. It doesn't have skills or feats like more classic D&D but it added in a version of death saves. It is a blend really, with some of its own innovations as well like the torch rule.

Yes, I really like the torch rule. I may give it a try in my 5e game. We already do RL time based things in our 5e game to add tension and excitement. This would fit right in.

Bill Zebub · Mar 16, 2023

dave2008 said:
Well it very specifically uses the (dis)advantage mechanic so it has to at least be partially based on the 5e SRD, so I guess I just looked at the whole thing as a riff off 5e.

The One Ring had an advantage-like mechanic before 5e, and I’ve heard (although don’t have evidence) that Mearls has given Francesco credit for the idea. So I would call it a 'modern' mechanic, not a 5e mechanic.

And there is so much that is core to 5e (and even D&D in general) that is absent from Shadowdark. Vancian casting is the huge one. But also subclasses, saving throws, adding ability modifiers to damage.

And DARKVISION.

I'm certainly no thought leader in the OSR space, and a relatively recent convert, but in my mind "old school" is more about the aesthetic and the "feel" of old school school gaming. Sure, some OSR games (retroclones) also copy the actual rules, but I don't think it's necessary. Shadowdark reminds me of what it felt like when I first started playing, even if some of the specifics of the rules have changed.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Mar 16, 2023

dave2008 said:
I had already backed Shadowdark and Forge of Foes, but there were still more goodies this week!

@Egg Embry I do wonder how / why you called Shadowdark systems OSR. It seems as much as a 5e clone to me as OSR (though I am not really familiar with what makes something an OSR clone).

OSR and retroclone are different things, although many OSR games are both.

Shadowdark is not a retroclone.

It is OSR, based on tone, focus, stripped down style, etc.

The Wikipedia article on OSR has a pretty good explanation (I say with mild surprise):

Wikipedia said:
The general ethos of OSR-style play emphasizes spontaneous rulings from the referee, or gamemaster, over set rules found in a book.[26] The idea is for the players to engage with the fantasy as much as possible, and have the referee arbitrate the outcomes of their specific actions in real time.[27] The idea of game balance is also de-emphasized in favor of a system which tests players’ skill and ingenuity in often strange or unfair situations.[28] The players should expect to lose if they merely pit their numbers against the monsters, and should instead attempt to outwit or outmaneuver challenges placed in their way. Keeping maps comes highly recommended.[29]

All of that is applicable here. Compare to, say, 3E, 4E and Pathfinder, which go the opposite direction on quite a lot of that, especially the ideas of game balance and that there won't be a lot of detailed rules covering every situation, in favor of "your DM will adjudicate a lot of this if it comes up."

Egg Embry · Mar 17, 2023

Charles Dunwoody said:
I'm not Egg, but I do have thoughts.

I'm not Charles, but I do have thoughts. And that thought is: I wish I was Charles!!!

Good question. I called it an OSR for all of the listed reasons and more.

I would LOVE to call it and every RPG that uses some variation on Gary's system: "An RPGary Variant". It'd drive home the fact that these many games owe a debt to Gary's work. ;-)

rknop · Mar 17, 2023

A post-WWII fear that never manifested?

It doesn't look exactly like what Orwell described, and, no it's not as extreme as all that. But it wasn't entirely unprophetic.

Most of us are now monitored and tracked all the time. True, it's not directly by the government, it's mostly done for advertising purposes (which is horrifying in its own way), though it's clear the government can get all that data pretty much any time it feels like it.

Thoughtcrime is also a thing. Whatever your political leaning, the ubiquity of social media means that the whole "public shaming" thing (which has been around for a number of years at this point) means that you're always in danger of getting at least socially shamed for your thoughtcrimes, with potentially more serious consequences for job etc.

Thoth11 · Mar 19, 2023

I must admit I love these articles!

Scribe · Mar 19, 2023

rknop said:
Most of us are now monitored and tracked all the time. True, it's not directly by the government, it's mostly done for advertising purposes (which is horrifying in its own way), though it's clear the government can get all that data pretty much any time it feels like it.

Got a cell? They got you.