D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[doctorbadwolf]

The arguments have been that teens drive the vast majority of the sales WotC is seeing, so the game should be aimed at them. And yes, teenagers become lifelong customers and should absolutely not be ignored, but if you focus on them to a greater degree than those who are spending the money, you will go out of business before they become the lifelong customers that have the money to spend.

WotC should aim the product at those with the money to a greater degree than those without, but still take the youngster crowd into consideration.

Do you have any solid examples of this happening? Of a company whole biggest demo is tween and teen users/fans, focusing on teens and tweens, more than older fans/users, and it costing them dearly?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Wouldn't you want WotC to do a better job making you personally happy if you didn't like what they were doing, especially if you've been mostly pleased with the game's evolution since the 80s?

No, past a certain point I would stop engaging, as I did when they canned 4e and the next playtest just went all manner of weird, and I went lol nope I’ll give it a look when it’s a PHB but that mess looks like the opposite of what I want.

I didn’t take it personally, well, not in public at least tho it did bum me out that they seemed to be kicking 4e fans out of the big tent, at the time.

Had 5e been what I expected it to be, I’d be playing a hacked hybrid of 4e and Star Wars Saga Edition with elements of The One Ring right now and I wouldn’t care about this new playtest at all.

First of all, I have responded to the playtest surveys.

Second of all, I'm not the only person who doesn't agree with nearly every move WotC has made in the last few years, like some posters here seem to. I'm just not in the majority.

Few of us do. There is a difference between disagreeing with wotc and crapping every thread that involves their product.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, past a certain point I would stop engaging, as I did when they canned 4e and the next playtest just went all manner of weird, and I went lol nope I’ll give it a look when it’s a PHB but that mess looks like the opposite of what I want.

I didn’t take it personally, well, not in public at least tho it did bum me out that they seemed to be kicking 4e fans out of the big tent, at the time.

Had 5e been what I expected it to be, I’d be playing a hacked hybrid of 4e and Star Wars Saga Edition with elements of The One Ring right now and I wouldn’t care about this new playtest at all.

Few of us do. There is a difference between disagreeing with wotc and crapping every thread that involves their product.

I've definitely seen some some posters here who have nothing but positive things to say about every move WotC makes. There are two ends to every spectrum.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I've definitely seen some some posters here who have nothing but positive things to say about every move WotC makes. There are two ends to every spectrum.

I doubt anyone has been always positive, it is unlikely you catch every post by any one poster.

I know of a few who are generally supportive, but I have seen them disagree on occasion. If you stick around long enough you can see it all!

However, being generally supportive in a D&D 5e forum and being generally negative in the same forums are not really two ends of the same spectrum.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I've definitely seen some some posters here who have nothing but positive things to say about every move WotC makes. There are two ends to every spectrum.

Okay. Being positive generally doesn’t usually make people feel like a place is hostile. It doesn’t crap threads.

It’s not a simple spectrum, it’s two different kinds of behavior.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay. Being positive generally doesn’t usually make people feel like a place is hostile. It doesn’t crap threads.

It’s not a simple spectrum, it’s two different kinds of behavior.

The bottom line is that you want people who don't like the status quo and think things are going in a bad direction to just be quiet. If you just want conversations about how great all the changes look and what minor tweaks we can gently suggest please just say so.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The bottom line is that you want people who don't like the status quo and think things are going in a bad direction to just be quiet. If you just want conversations about how great all the changes look and what minor tweaks we can gently suggest please just say so.

No, I want people who are mad about the game as it is developing to moderate themselves at all in their constant tirades that the rest of us have to constantly ignore in order to talk about literally anything else.

Like I suggested to you once that perhaps I should start complaining about everything that I think A5e (and anything else you like) gets wrong every time you bring it up in any thread in any context? Just relentlessly. That wouldn’t make you not want to come here, right? It’d be fine, right?

Of course not. I haven’t done that because doing so would be unbelievably terrible behavior.

What I want, is to be able to talk about the playtest without constant, repetitive, relentless, incessant, vitriolic, negativity.

If you really can't or won’t distinguish between that, and “want[ing] people who don't like the status quo and think things are going in a bad direction to just be quiet.”, that is entirely on you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, I want people who are mad about the game as it is developing to moderate themselves at all in their constant tirades that the rest of us have to constantly ignore in order to talk about literally anything else.

Like I suggested to you once that perhaps I should start complaining about everything that I think A5e (and anything else you like) gets wrong every time you bring it up in any thread in any context? Just relentlessly. That wouldn’t make you not want to come here, right? It’d be fine, right?

Of course not. I haven’t done that because doing so would be unbelievably terrible behavior.

What I want, is to be able to talk about the playtest without constant, repetitive, relentless, incessant, vitriolic, negativity.

If you really can't or won’t distinguish between that, and “want[ing] people who don't like the status quo and think things are going in a bad direction to just be quiet.”, that is entirely on you.

My intent is to express my opinion, not to create a hostile environment (although that's clearly a side effect, and I am genuinely sorry I've made you feel that way). It still sounds to me like you just don't want to hear any negative opinion, but I'll drop out if it's bothering you that much. I'm glad that everything WotC is doing with their version of D&D is what you like. That isn't true for all of us, but the ones that are happy really seem to have a problem with dissent.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My intent is to express my opinion, not to create a hostile environment (although that's clearly a side effect, and I am genuinely sorry I've made you feel that way). It still sounds to me like you just don't want to hear any negative opinion, but I'll drop out if it's bothering you that much. I'm glad that everything WotC is doing with their version of D&D is what you like. That isn't true for all of us, but the ones that are happy really seem to have a problem with dissent.

But it never stops, is the thing. That’s why it isn’t just expressing an opinion. Plenty of posters dislike stuff in the playtest, or the whole endeavor. I argue with people all the time about this game, on here, and often I’m the one criticizing wotc’s decisions in those arguments. I am often the source of negative opinions. Check in the thread about mixed-race nomenclature. Or my very recent reply to @Parmandur about monks and simple weapons. Or a dozen other threads.

Your spurious accusationp of people who are tired of hearing it every single thread, every page, every time anything related to D&D comes up, just “have a problem with dissent” is pretty messed up.

You aren’t just expressing an opinion, you are making your anger other folks’ problem.

 

[Maxperson]

No you claimed that WotC needs to take older gamers into account when designing material. Then defined older gamer as anyone over 18 or 25.

Never did that. I explicitly said 30+, but that I'd take the 24-29 crowd has having enough(though significantly less than the 30+ crowd) disposable income to buy books. Someone else said 18+