D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Parmandur]

If you want to play 5e, you are going to need the 5e core books. Unless you want to spend a whole lot of time and energy converting old monsters to 5e, you will need to buy the 5e monster books. Unless you want to spend a lot of time and effort converting old classes, prestige classes, magic items, spells, etc. to 5e, you will need to buy those 5e books as well. That's a lot of 5e books to buy, and take on new settings and adventures if you want any of those.

Unless of course you don't want to play 5e. Then you can ignore 5e releases, but are also not in the demographic(5e players) being discussed in this thread.

I mean, converting pre-3E stuff to 5E is pretty basic, and the Core books alone represent nigh infinite gameplay by themselves.

 

[Maxperson]

So, I say grognards are not that important and you say both ‘yes they are’ and ‘old people are not all grognards but buy the most stuff’. How is that contradicting my statement?

Seriously dude? It was to you that I replied that "I don't care about grognard and don't really consider them a category that exists, which is why I made the joke about the young, medium and grog nards."

At this point it doesn't seem like you are arguing in good faith if you can come back a second time like that with the grognard thing.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Wouldn't you want WotC to do a better job making you personally happy if you didn't like what they were doing, especially if you've been mostly pleased with the game's evolution since the 80s?

Maybe but I would try to do it where there is a chance that they might hear. Like on the playtest surveys.
Continuing to try to push your views where there is no welcome is pointless.

 

[Parmandur]

Seriously dude? It was to you that I replied that "I don't care about grognard and don't really consider them a category that exists, which is why I made the joke about the young, medium and grog nards."

At this point it doesn't seem like you are arguing in good faith if you can come back a second time like that with the grognard thing.

Yeah, I have to say, grognardism isn't about age, it's about attitude. I saw some fairly young people become grognards when 5E replaced their 4E, and many older people roll along merrily from edition to edition. Grognardism is a different phenomenon from aging.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, converting pre-3E stuff to 5E is pretty basic, and the Core books alone represent nigh infinite gameplay by themselves.

People like options. The core books don't provide that many different ways to play fighters, rangers, etc. And converting is still a lot of time and effort(my claim) even if it's easy(I didn't say hard). A lot of people, especially the older ones with families and jobs, don't have that kind of time and/or want to put in that much effort when for just a few bucks they can buy the book.

 

[Parmandur]

People like options. The core books don't provide that many different ways to play fighters, rangers, etc. And converting is still a lot of time and effort(my claim) even if it's easy(I didn't say hard). A lot of people, especially the older ones with families and jobs, don't have that kind of time and/or want to put in that much effort when for just a few bucks they can buy the book.

Sure, and I'm sure many do. But that doesn't mean that WotC is lying or mistaken thst teens are their primary audience.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, I have to say, grognardism isn't about age, it's about attitude. I saw some fairly young people become grognards when 5E replaced their 4E, and many older people roll along merrily from edition to edition. Grognardism is a different phenomenon from aging.

And I think it's a very small group in any case. Not worth discussing in this sort of debate.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Maybe but I would try to do it where there is a chance that they might hear. Like on the playtest surveys.
Continuing to try to push your views where there is no welcome is pointless.

First of all, I have responded to the playtest surveys.

Second of all, I'm not the only person who doesn't agree with nearly every move WotC has made in the last few years, like some posters here seem to. I'm just not in the majority.

 

[Parmandur]

And I think it's a very small group in any case. Not worth discussing in this sort of debate.

Lol, thst de0ends on whether we are talking theboriginal OP topic or whatever we are doing at this point.

Black Flag is explicitly a call to arms for 5E grognards, which is fine, but weirdly OneD&D is also using thst same playbook.

 

[Oofta]

This isn't about restrictions. And the fact that you're happy with what they're putting out now doesn't make your opinion any more true than mine. Most folks just don't like to hear people criticize things they like. I know I don't.

It also doesn't mean they're targeting any specific age demographic, which is what you were claiming. Most companies target younger buyers simply because they haven't had as much of a chance to develop brand loyalty. That doesn't mean that they're ignoring other age groups.

D&D is in a weird place. In many cases it's become multi-generational. People that grew up with D&D and played it when they are young are now parents with kids (or even grandkids in some cases) old enough to play. Parents are more likely to be DMs and DMs make most of the purchases. So keeping those older folks happy is more important for D&D than it is for some brands. Of course you have to target young people as well because even if they aren't the ones making the biggest purchases you want to get them hooked so they'll continue to be consumers in the long run..

You can't please everyone. The satisfaction or dissatisfaction of any individual on this forum is pretty meaningless.