D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Minigiant]

But, half-elves don't have their own societies. They never have (not in core anyway).

Isn't that the problem. The 5e attempted to use 50year old RPG lore for a modern game.

Can't we have half-elf transform and become.... like the tiefling (a race that is often the offspring of a human and fiend)?

4e have tiefling countries and kingdoms. 5e reverted this.

Why don't we move forward? Make half elf and half orc like tiefling and give them their own cities states, countries, empires, societies, and cultures?

Imagine counties of people who are mostly human but can see in the dark and live to 200 reguarly. What kind of towns, heroes, villian, weapons, and spells would that create? A human who gets 100+ years in prime health or an elf with actual ambition.

Why is 5e chained to a past mentality and to past fans who frankly don't even play 5e?

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

But, half-elves don't have their own societies. They never have (not in core anyway). The specific write up in the 5e PHB is:

But they very much do in Eberron. Khoravar half-elves are a major population block all across Khorvaire and make up two of the Dragonmarked Houses (although one prefers not to identify as Khoravar), and many very specifically reject the notion that they are something less than a distinct people unto themselves - they are not humans, they are not elves, they are Khoravar.

Without their own mechanics, there is no distinct Khoravar identity - we can have a discussion about making those mechanics more significant and impactful than previous iterations may have been (I'm not going to pretend the '14 half-elf statblock was especially exciting), but removing them entirely and splitting all Khoravar in the setting down the middle into "really an elf" and "really a human" camps only robs them of the identity they had.

You brought up matters of memories of past lives and the ability to shift gender as possible aspects that help define the sense of elven identity - do those pass on to half-elves that use the elf statblock? Are they denied to half-elves that use the human stat-block? Are any upcoming book authors going to bother asking or answering those questions if all mixed-ancestry characters are shoved into a single sidebar in the PHB from now on?

Tieflings in past editions were (more explicitly) mixed-ancestry characters as well, with both fiendish and mortal blood - should we shoe-horn them into the same mold and make tiefling players choose between using the human mechanics or telling them to go pick out a fiend statblock from the Monster Manual?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Isn't that the problem. The 5e attempted to use 50year old RPG lore for a modern game.

Can't we have half-elf transform and become.... like the tiefling (a race that is often the offspring of a human and fiend)?

4e have tiefling countries and kingdoms. 5e reverted this.

Why don't we move forward? Make half elf and half orc like tiefling and give them their own cities states, countries, empires, societies, and cultures?

Imagine counties of people who are mostly human but can see in the dark and live to 200 reguarly. What kind of towns, heroes, villian, weapons, and spells would that create? A human who gets 100+ years in prime health or an elf with actual ambition.

Why is 5e chained to a past mentality and to past fans who frankly don't even play 5e?

That's what my DM has done for his homebrew setting. Half-elves and half-orcs (both have their own name too) are their own species created from interbreeding of humans and elves/orcs thousands of years ago. They have their own kingdoms and cultures.

Of course half-elves/orcs are still possible from a human and elf/orc pairing in the setting.

 

[Remathilis]

Can we stop with the tangents and go back to how this is a huge "you don't exist" to all mixed-race people? (which includes the whole Latino population?)

Except it isn't. They are saying mixed species characters can exist and you can mix ANY two species, not just the two pre-approved choices. You just don't get any mechanical advantage for mixing them. Pick one set of traits rather than go to the buffet and pick whatever two traits you like most and tell them "...now kiss"

Unless you think all mixed race people are represented by human/elf and human/orc.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think allowing mechanical differences based on mixed-parentage is apt to cause a lot of problems (and min-maxing based on race is... kinda icky, isn't it?). I am not convinced doing so sends a good message, either.

One of the appeals of selecting your race is the mechanical bonuses. If min maxing with your race and class choice has been around forever. And even non-power gamers often min max to s degree by taking the choices they think will be more effective. Min maxing can be a problem in a heavy RP group or something but I don’t think this sends any kind of message nor is it icky. When birthright had bonuses for human ethnicities, I did find that a bit icky. But not a bonus for being elven or having a human parent and a gnome parent

 

[Remathilis]

They are too,

Salesman mode: And I'd sell a whole book of all the combos.

Put them in another book. Or in the DMG.There is a load of wasted space in that tome.

Using only the confirmed nine PHB races, there are 511 unique combinations of parental matches, including the full blooded versions. That's more than there are monsters in the Monster Manual.

 

[Remathilis]

I would love to see for WOTC to pull up their pants and create lineage groups where only certain races can create offspring naturally.

Hairies with Hairies. Furries with Furries. Scalies with Scalies. Gobbos with Gobbos. Robots with Robots. Trees with Trees.

If you want a dwarf/dragonborn, that on the DM to make.

You realize that is dwelling VERY close to the language used by segregationists less than a century ago, right? The whole "like should stay with like" was the foundation of Jim Crow?

It's not a good look and I'd rather WotC stay silent than say "some species should stick with their own kind."

 

[Frozen_Heart]

If half-elves aren't in the PHB, hopefully a 1DnD Eberron supplement adds Khoravar as a playable species (with their own mechanics). Essentially adding half-elves via the back door.

Hopefully people don't object to that.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

You realize that is dwelling VERY close to the language used by segregationists less than a century ago, right? The whole "like should stay with like" was the foundation of Jim Crow?

It's not a good look and I'd rather WotC stay silent than say "some species should stick with their own kind."

I'm not sure how it's segregationist to say that two completely different species can't reproduce. A dog can't reproduce with a cat, a fish can't reproduce with a bird, etc. Yes there are exceptions, and some very closely related species can reproduce despite not being the same species. But those are exceptions and not the norm.

And not being able to reproduce doesn't mean two species have to segregate either. People can form meaningful bonds and relationships even without offspring being involved.

Of course there will always be exceptions and flavourings for peoples characters they've thought of. A warforged/human might be a cyborg. A dragonborn/dwarf might be a half-dragon. Or someone's homebrew setting could simply say that anyone can reproduce with anyone regardless of species or gender.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You realize that is dwelling VERY close to the language used by segregationists less than a century ago, right? The whole "like should stay with like" was the foundation of Jim Crow?

It's not a good look and I'd rather WotC stay silent than say "some species should stick with their own kind."

Again I think a lot of peoples reactions are shaped by how they view the concept of a demi-human race or race in general in D&D. I have always seen them as different species related in the way humans might be to neanderthals or homo floresiensis. Some races might even be, in our terms, another genus or order. So having some that can mix and some that can’t seems reasonable in terms of world building logic (especially when you throw gods and magic in the mix, where natural selection may not even be a factor (i.e. humans may have been created by a god and relatively stable over time). Now people can read real world racial issues into that, but I think this is operating more in the real of myth, legend and fantasy