WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Umbran]

Reaching out to the Youtuber to get the stuff before getting police involved is most likely better for everyone concerned. It reduces the risk of violence, it speeds the process, it minimizes the chances of the dude getting a criminal record or having to spend time and money going to court because the an officer recommends and prosecutor decides to press criminal charges (which is in their hands once you go them with a report of possible criminal activity, which is all they'd be interested in)...

But, if the cards were stolen, it virtually guarantees that the physical evidence completely disappears.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think generally the right of people to not have threats of violence against them over the leaking of details about a luxury good and potential supply chain issues vastly out-trumps a company losing some profit. By far. Especially when we're talking about a company as big as WoTC.

Again, there were no threats of violence. There were, in the light most favorable to Mr. Cannon, threats of legal repercussions.

This is what is making the discussion difficult- yes, someone can be intimidated by people showing up and letting you know that there is a possibility that you might be liable (civilly and/or criminally). But as unpleasant as that can be, there's a big difference between that and having someone physically threaten you.

 

[Mannahnin]

But, if the cards were stolen, it virtually guarantees that the physical evidence completely disappears.

Maybe after watching his videos WotC believed that Cannon hadn't stolen them and that the issue was upstream of him. And that he'd be cooperative if they could get a hold of him.

If he was indeed deleting their comments on his YouTube videos, then that's another factor in favor of physically going to see him.

 

[delericho]

The person I blame most for this is whoever thought it was a good idea to name the follow up to "March of the Machines" "March of the Machines: the Aftermath". Such a similar name pretty much guarantees a screw up somewhere along the line. I would be surprised if this wasn't simply a matter of the wrong thing being sent by mistake... and indeed I'd be surprised if this was the only 'leak' that has occurred. It's probably just the only one that went to a random YouTuber and that we therefore know about.

For the rest of it: WotC are within their legal rights to send in the Pinkertons. But the community is likewise within their legal rights to react as they have (here, on Twitter, on Reddit, and elsewhere). It may be an over-reaction, it may not be rational, but the community is under no obligation on those grounds. And such a reaction was certainly predictable, and very likely inevitable - in fact, WotC's current position is such that any response other than "just let it slide" would probably have caused outrage.

The sad fact is that WotC have thoroughly torched any and all goodwill they once had over the past few months. That's not a good position to be in when you're trying to sell people things that they really don't need, in the face of ever-escalating production costs, and at a time when inflation is causing huge numbers to feel the pinch.

WotC would probably have been wise just to let this one go. But it was their prerogative to choose otherwise.

All IMO, of course.

 

[Maxperson]

Again without breaking rules, I have a deposition towards being sceptical of violence, particularly deadly violence, being used in protests or other situations. It is a failure of security and safety for such situations to happen in so many cases - so the fact cases like this do continue to happen is depressing.

My view on the situation is that pepper spray is not a lethal weapon, nor is aggressiveness. I haven't actually read the article, so I don't know if @Homicidal_Squirrel's word aggressiveness just meant demeanor or whether he was assaulting the security guy. If it was simply demeanor, then shooting the protestor was wrong. You don't get to escalate to lethal force for non-lethal actions. If however, it was physical assault while the guard was under the effects of pepper spray, then I can see him being in fear for his life. He doesn't know if the guy will take his gun and use it, or simply beat him to death.

Regardless of which way it went, though, Pinkerton shares part of the fault for that death. It was their responsibility to vet those that they hire and avoid hiring people not licensed to be in that position. They don't get all of the blame for the death, but they are not innocent of it.

 

[tomBitonti]

Again, there were no threats of violence. There were, in the light most favorable to Mr. Cannon, threats of legal repercussions.

This is what is making the discussion difficult- yes, someone can be intimidated by people showing up and letting you know that there is a possibility that you might be liable (civilly and/or criminally). But as unpleasant as that can be, there's a big difference between that and having someone physically threaten you.

I dunno. I can’t speak to the veracity of what was stated to have happened, but if Mr. cannon’s wife requested that they leave, and if they physically prevented the door from closing (which means they did not leave), and they did so while armed, I’d say they ratcheted up the threat to criminal levels. Defiant trespass and assault while armed? Possibly they have extra allowances as PI — my understanding is that licensed bounty hunters and repossession agents can do more than is generally recognized. Still, if a non-law enforcement agent showed up at my house while armed and refused to leave I’d feel threatened.

My guess is there was a miscommunication or failure of communication to the agents. They may have gone in on a “recovery of stolen property, value $4000 + corporate Information leak” request, without being given enough particulars to moderate their behavior.

TomB

 

[Maxperson]

We know WotC tried to call him. They could have tried dispatching one of their own employees to his home, but that's outside their job description and training, and potentially risky. They clearly wanted to act quickly and minimize the chance that he'd toss the packaging and ignore them, which I would assume would be a strong possibility if they only reached out remotely.

Maybe don't use an unlisted number so that he knows who is calling him. Maybe hire a smaller unknown firm and direct them to be discreet and non-threatening so as not to cause a PR scandal. There were ways to go about this that didn't involve how it went down or law enforcement.

 

[Mannahnin]

The person I blame most for this is whoever thought it was a good idea to name the follow up to "March of the Machines" "March of the Machines: the Aftermath". Such a similar name pretty much guarantees a screw up somewhere along the line. I would be surprised if this wasn't simply a matter of the wrong thing being sent by mistake... and indeed I'd be surprised if this was the only 'leak' that has occurred. It's probably just the only one that went to a random YouTuber and that we therefore know about.

Eeeeh. The names are close, sure, but anyone who retails Magic cards regularly would easily distinguish the sets and packaging. I understand that Cannon said his dealer is more familiar with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, but I'm still a bit surprised.

No doubt the name similarity could cause some confusion somewhere along the distribution chain, though, especially on packing slips or spreadsheets with abbreviations.

 

[Maxperson]

But, if the cards were stolen, it virtually guarantees that the physical evidence completely disappears.

If they were concerned with that then they wouldn't have called first. If he had picked up the phone for the unknown number and they had talked to him about it, he could have gotten rid of the evidence before anyone arrived. I think it's safe to assume that either they didn't think it was theft, or they weren't all that concerned with losing the evidence.

 

[Mannahnin]

Maybe don't use an unlisted number so that he knows who is calling him.

Maybe. If he was indeed deleting their comments on his videos, maybe that didn't seem like a viable option.

Maybe hire a smaller unknown firm and direct them to be discreet and non-threatening so as not to cause a PR scandal.

Maybe, assuming one was available locally and had good ratings WotC felt confident in. The downside of an unknown company is not knowing how they'll behave or whether they're reliable. Given that Hasbro has multiple risk and security execs who formerly worked at Pinkerton, their decision to use a company they're familiar and comfortable with makes sense.

There were ways to go about this that didn't involve how it went down or law enforcement.

Maybe. I'm not sure the evidence we have allows us to say that with confidence.