WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Bacon Bits]

Again, there were no threats of violence. There were, in the light most favorable to Mr. Cannon, threats of legal repercussions.

This is what is making the discussion difficult- yes, someone can be intimidated by people showing up and letting you know that there is a possibility that you might be liable (civilly and/or criminally). But as unpleasant as that can be, there's a big difference between that and having someone physically threaten you.

Not just anyone showing up. Someone from Pinkerton showing up. A company infamous enough to be the villain in media representations, with a history of actions that we'd probably expect from a private military contractor today. "Oh, they were not de jure threats of violence," doesn't really improve my perception of events all that much. "Let's maybe toe the line for assault," does not improve my perception of Hasbro or WotC. If we have to even talk about the legal definitions of assault, threat, or harassment, WotC has really already lost.

 

[darjr]

Engadget has a story on it.

‘Magic: The Gathering’ publisher Wizards of the Coast sent the Pinkertons after a leaker | Engadget

Magic: The Gathering publisher Wizards of the Coast sent the Pinkertons to "recover" a set of cards a YouTuber obtained early..

www.engadget.com

 

[ReshiIRE]

Again, there were no threats of violence. There were, in the light most favorable to Mr. Cannon, threats of legal repercussions.

This is what is making the discussion difficult- yes, someone can be intimidated by people showing up and letting you know that there is a possibility that you might be liable (civilly and/or criminally). But as unpleasant as that can be, there's a big difference between that and having someone physically threaten you.

I would personally consider someone, who is presumably armed*, from a security group, who I am not aware is coming, going between my house and neighbours, as a threat of violence.

Now, granted, there are potential holes in the YouTuber's story in question - and I live in a society where a private investigator wouldn't have a weapon capable of killing me on them.

But yeah, from my personal point of view, it's threatening.

* I am presuming they would be armed considering the nature of the job and the country we are talking about.

 

[Olrox17]

And here I was, thinking “WotC is lawful evil” was just a meme. Now they’re hiring infamous merc outfits to intimidate people at their homes.
Yeah I don’t think I’m ever buying WotC products ever again. I was on the fence after the OGL disaster, but this is so insane it’s funny.

 

[Amrûnril]

It seems some commenters are giving a lot of deference to WotC's desire to investigate the cards' provenance on their own terms and timeline. This desire is understandable, but it doesn't trump the card recipient's right to be secure from harassment in his own home and to have property disputes resolved by the appropriate legal processes (or by freely entered negotiation).

Again, given that these matters tend to be time-sensitive (right?) and that they wanted the physical product for the investigation, having people go to pick it up does not seem like it's some form of harassment.

Having representatives politely ask for the product would not be harassment. But if those representatives force themselves into a door when the residents try to close it, threaten to detain those residents, and demand the product's immediate surrender, backed by legal threats that the target has no opportunity to discuss with a lawyer*, that is absolutely harassment.

*All of this is alleged of course, but it's entirely consistent with the reputation of the agency in question, and WotC's denials are notably vague and nonspecific.

 

[Maxperson]

Not just anyone showing up. Someone from Pinkerton showing up. A company infamous enough to be the villain in media representations, with a history of actions that we'd probably expect from a private military contractor today. "Oh, they were not de jure threats of violence," doesn't really improve my perception of events all that much. "Let's maybe toe the line for assault," does not improve my perception of Hasbro or WotC. If we have to even talk about the legal definitions of assault, threat, or harassment, WotC has really already lost.

I'm kinda with @Snarf Zagyg with his view that not everyone knows the history of Pinkerton. I'm a fairly smart guy who likes to keep up on things and learn history, science, etc. and I wasn't aware of Pinkerton's history before this thread.

That said, I think any major armed service like Pinkerton would be inherently threatening if they showed up at your doorstep and wouldn't let you close your door.

 

[Bacon Bits]

And here I was, thinking “WotC is lawful evil” was just a meme. Now they’re hiring infamous merc outfits to intimidate people at their homes.
Yeah I don’t think I’m ever buying WotC products ever again. I was on the fence after the OGL disaster, but this is so insane it’s funny.

I was just joking to a friend of mine that maybe we can't say, "WotC isn't going to come to your house and confiscate your books," anymore!

 

[The Scythian]

Also, while this is (again) coming from the internetz and therefore unverifiable, apparently people who viewed the prior videos (the ones with the changing stories) have stated that Hasbro (WoTC) employees did attempt to contact him through the comments on Youtube, but he deleted their comments on youtube.

Is there a place where I can read about these claims? In one article on the subject, Linda Codega quotes Dan Cannon as saying that the Pinkerton agents told him that they didn't call ahead of time because they worried that he would destroy the evidence that they wanted. It's possible that Cannon is a liar, but his claim lines up with WotC calling him using an unlisted number and choosing not to leave a message, which seems to be what happened. It's really tough for me to imagine these companies being so worried that Cannon might destroy evidence that they feel restricted in how they might contact him over the phone deciding to send him comments on his YouTube videos telling him to get in touch with them. It's ludicrous. I would like to see these claims so that I can weigh them myself.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Is there a place where I can read about these claims? In one article on the subject, Linda Codega quotes Dan Cannon as saying that the Pinkerton agents told him that they didn't call ahead of time because they worried that he would destroy the evidence that they wanted. It's possible that Cannon is a liar, but his claim lines up with WotC calling him using an unlisted number and choosing not to leave a message, which seems to be what happened. It's really tough for me to imagine these companies being so worried that Cannon might destroy evidence that they feel restricted in how they might contact him over the phone deciding to send him comments on his YouTube videos telling him to get in touch with them. It's ludicrous. I would like to see these claims so that I can weigh them myself.

If you go through the weeds of various sites, you will find people that claim to have been watching the original videos. They all state the same things- that his story changed from the original videos (where he claimed to receive it from a friend, and knew what it was the unreleased version) to the later scrubbed version of "got it from some distributor who must have given it to me by accident." That there were comments (purportedly from WOTC) that asked him to contact them and to return the cards that were deleted. And so on. Obviously, I don't know what the veracity of these comments are.

As for "reaching out," the WOTC official response to Polygon (which is different than the response to io9), that Polygon printed in full, was this:
As part of an investigation into the unauthorized distribution and disclosure of embargoed product, we repeatedly attempted to contact an individual who had received unreleased cards. After that outreach was unsuccessful, an investigator visited him and asked that he reach out to us as part of our investigation and return the embargoed product and packaging. He agreed to do both. The unreleased product will be replaced by us with the product he intended to purchase. We appreciate the individual’s cooperation and the investigation is ongoing.

The specific comment about the phone calls was to io9.

Again, I wouldn't be too invested in this either way (no matter how much people played Red Dead Redemption 2). If there's one thing I've learned, it's that corporations protect their interests, and people lie. Without the ability to view the deleted videos and the comments, it's really hard to ascertain what the original issues were independently. YMMV.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I'm kinda with @Snarf Zagyg with his view that not everyone knows the history of Pinkerton. I'm a fairly smart guy who likes to keep up on things and learn history, science, etc. and I wasn't aware of Pinkerton's history before this thread.

That said, I think any major armed service like Pinkerton would be inherently threatening if they showed up at your doorstep and wouldn't let you close your door.

Not everyone knows, but a lot of people do. The Pinkerton National Detective Agency is muscle for the primary antagonist of Red Dead Redemption 2, for example. That's the 8th best-selling video game of all time, beating out generation 1 Pokemon and falling just short of the original Super Mario Brothers. A lot of people on reddit responded with, "Wait, Pinkertons are real?!" Even then, not knowing that you should feel threatened, intimidated or harassed doesn't mean you're not being threatened, intimidated or harassed, after all.

It's hard to argue that they're not intentionally operating with that reputation, either. After all, they have changed their name since the 19th century... by dropping "National Detective Agency"!