WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Umbran]

And why are you defining hard-hitting journalism here as a reporter demanding that Cannon provide a receipt instead of a reporter demanding that WotC provide some evidence of wrongdoing?

WotC didn't and doesn't seem to be looking to punish, or otherwise penalize Cannon. They just wanted the cards back. Cannon doesn't have to have done anything wrong for them to send someone to ask for them back.

And, if we must - the videos are evidence of something that's ethically questionable.

Assume he's being honest - he really did want to by the previous set... $4000 worth if I recall correctly. When he found they were something else, he's in the position of a guy who, in buying a backpack at a yard sale, gets it home and finds someone's wallet, driver's license, and several hundred dollars in cash in there.

He has something that he shouldn't. The ethically correct thing would be to return it, rather than take the extra value and use it for himself (by making videos). So, he kind of failed that ethics test.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I don't know who the private detectives had Cannon call, specifically, but I am certain it was someone in WotC's investigations or intelligence division, or whatever they happen to call it there. (Or, more accurately, at Hasbro's investigations or intelligence division. When I say WotC, you can read it as Hasbro, WotC/Hasbro, or whatever works for you.) Some random regular employee wouldn't be at the other end of the line. It's not like they have Jeremy Crawford or Chris Perkins handle their investigations.

How can you be sure of division the WoTC employee Cannon spoke to worked with if you don't know who the employee is? How does that work? You can assume it, but you can't be sure. It's just conjecture.

We know that former Pinkerton employees are in at least two key security positions at Hasbro, so of course they would know how Pinkerton private detectives operate. However, as I've said in a previous post, this isn't just about Pinkerton. All private detective agencies operate more or less the same way.

Mote conjecture. Come on, "all" PI agencies work the same? Every single one? That is a proven fact? There is documentation showing every single PI agency in existence work in the manner you assume? They all do good cop/bad cop to start off their contact with people they speak with?

Everyone in Hasbro's investigations division would have a basic understanding of how street level investigations are conducted, and the good cop/bad cop approach is a basic technique utilized by investigators and interrogators the world over.

Would everyone really have that basic knowledge? What is the basic knowledge? You seem to be knowledgeable about this. How did you come about this basic knowledge?

It's an Occam's Razor thing. Either investigators took a textbook good cop/bad cop approach to obtain Cannon's consent to get the cards, or they took some other approach and Cannon was savvy enough to create a textbook good cop/bad cop approach out of whole cloth. The former seems simpler and far more likely.

So it's a dichotomy? We only have two possibilities? It's either one or the other? No nuances? No possibility of something completely different that doesn't involve the good cop/bad cop scenario? No possibility that the WoTC employee had no idea what the Pinkerton staff would do and this WoTC employee was genuinely friendly and helpful, and truly was surprised and apologetic about what transpired? That's not even possible? Really? No other possibilities?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

edit note:

There was a big post about my line of work and how it pertains to this situation, but it's probably best not to advertise.

I'd delete the post but don't think I can.

So, here, have a nice meme:

https://media.tenor.com/B3wcngElK30AAAAd/my-bad-excuse-me.gif

Are you the WoTC employee who Cannon called? I knew it!!!!

 

[Clint_L]

You know, IP goes missing a lot and is often recovered from a third party who came to it through dubious circumstances. This happens regularly in the music industry; it's an issue that a lot of artists are constantly dealing with (I recently read a great Rolling Stone article about it). Within fandoms, there are a lot of folks who will pay good money to get their hands on unreleased material and other rare items. So this type of situation is not remotely unusual; it is just a bit unusual in our particular corner of fandom.

I am extremely skeptical about the YouTuber's story, especially given how much it has changed from his early accounts, but even giving him every benefit of the doubt, surely we can all agree that the owners of the IP have the right to get their property back, and he had no right to be publishing it. The ramifications go far beyond this particular case.

I also see no issue with using the Pinkertons to retrieve the cards, but that is a different issue than whether WotC had the right to get their IP back.

My basic principle is that if you know something isn't yours, you shouldn't be trying to keep or profit off it. This guy is a Magic fanatic. He knew what he had. I find it bizarre that folks are defending him.

 

[Olrox17]

You know, IP goes missing a lot and is often recovered from a third party who came to it through dubious circumstances. This happens regularly in the music industry; it's an issue that a lot of artists are constantly dealing with (I recently read a great Rolling Stone article about it). Within fandoms, there are a lot of folks who will pay good money to get their hands on unreleased material and other rare items. So this type of situation is not remotely unusual; it is just a bit unusual in our particular corner of fandom.

I am extremely skeptical about the YouTuber's story, especially given how much it has changed from his early accounts, but even giving him every benefit of the doubt, surely we can all agree that the owners of the IP have the right to get their property back, and he had no right to be publishing it. The ramifications go far beyond this particular case.

I also see no issue with using the Pinkertons to retrieve the cards, but that is a different issue than whether WotC had the right to get their IP back.

My basic principle is that if you know something isn't yours, you shouldn't be trying to keep or profit off it. This guy is a Magic fanatic. He knew what he had. I find it bizarre that folks are defending him.

Their property? If the guy bought the cards, they were his property. He wasn’t the one who (mistakenly or willingly) broke street date. The retailer did. The guy had no obligation towards WotC, the retailer did, he just purchased a product.

I’m astounded that people are defending WotC for sending aggressive goons to a person’s house to “appropriate” goods he legitimately bought.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Their property? If the guy bought the cards, they were his property.

So, if you left your wallet on a table, I found it, and sold it to someone else, you would be absolutely fine with the person who bought it doing whatever they liked with the cash and credit cards inside? After all, he bought it, they are his property.

 

[Olrox17]

So, if you left your wallet on a table, I found it, and sold it to someone else, you would be absolutely fine with the person who bought it doing whatever they liked with the cash and credit cards inside? After all, he bought it, they are his property.

First off, there is such a thing as a bona fide purchaser, and at least in my country and legal system such position is protected (can’t be sure about the US and its states, but I’d assume something like that exists over there as well).

Second, your example is a really obvious instance of fencing. Which is a crime.
Are you suggesting that YouTuber committed such a crime, rather than just making a purchase from a retailer who broke (for whatever reason) a street date deal with WotC?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

First off, there is such a thing as a bona fide purchaser, and at least in my country and legal system such position is protected (can’t be sure about the US and its states, but I’d assume something like that exists over there as well).

Second, your example is a really obvious instance of fencing. Which is a crime.
Are you suggesting that YouTuber committed such a crime, rather than just making a purchase from a retailer who broke (for whatever reason) a street date deal with WotC?

1) I have no reason to believe their story. In my experience, everyone lies, especially on the internet.
2) This was just as obviously not a legitimate purchase. The fact that they made a video bragging about it proves they knew it was not. Stupidity is not a crime, but if it was they deserve life.
3) Receiving Stolen Goods is a crime. And under UK law it doesn't matter if you bought them off someone else believing they where the legitimate owners, you still have no right to the goods (or your money back).

 

[Zardnaar]

1) I have no reason to believe their story. In my experience, everyone lies, especially on the internet.
2) This was just as obviously not a legitimate purchase. The fact that they made a video bragging about it proves they knew it was not. Stupidity is not a crime, but if it was they deserve life.
3) Receiving Stolen Goods is a crime. And under UK law it doesn't matter if you bought them off someone else believing they where the legitimate owners, you still have no right to the goods (or your money back).

Goods weren't stolen if the youtuber is telling the truth.

Breaking a release date is a civil matter not criminal cops wouldn't do much.
WotC are within there rights to punish whoever leaked the product subject to the terms of supply contract.

The WorC magic warehouse is in Texas AFAIK. If it's gone to the distributor WotC no longer owns said product.

The youtuber could have told the Pinkertons to sod off and laugh at wotc. Nor are they under any obligation to provide any information where they got the cards from.

WotC could have sent a lawyer with threats of legal action vs the Pinkertons.

 

[Olrox17]

1) I have no reason to believe their story. In my experience, everyone lies, especially on the internet.
2) This was just as obviously not a legitimate purchase. The fact that they made a video bragging about it proves they knew it was not. Stupidity is not a crime, but if it was they deserve life.
3) Receiving Stolen Goods is a crime. And under UK law it doesn't matter if you bought them off someone else believing they where the legitimate owners, you still have no right to the goods (or your money back).

So you’re just assuming that the cards were stolen and the YouTuber is guilty of fencing. Quite a claim, and one I see no reason to believe (or make, really, but you do you).

Even if I were to entertain the idea that the goods were stolen and the guy knowingly bought stolen goods, WotC reaction is still inappropriate! If that was the case, they 100% should have called the cops, rather than private armed goons.
I can see no scenario were WotC did things right.