WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's not the question that I asked. I'm asking if you can agree that his intention was to buy the cards for the March of the Machine and not the March of the Machine: Aftermath. The rest doesn't matter. I'm just trying to start with some common ground. So... can we agree that his intention was to buy the March of The Machine cards and not the March of The Machine: the Aftermath? It's a simple question. A yes or no would suffice. Also, can we agree that Cannon is knowledgeable about the Magic The GAthering game?

you can introduce any statements you'd like to ask me to see if we can agree on it as well. This is a two way street. As I said, I want to find some common ground first.
I'm sure his intention was to buy the MotM cards and not the Aftermath cards, so yes.

But! That doesn't matter. Because you're not obligated to return material that you paid for, even if they sent you the wrong thing. Nor are you obligated to not make a video about it.

It also doesn't matter if you think making the video was stupid of him or not. Being stupid is not, in and of itself, a reason to send Pinkerton agents after him or intimidate him into surrendering his property.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I'm sure his intention was to buy the MotM cards and not the Aftermath cards, so yes.
I'm going to ignore the rest because as I've said, I'm just trying to find some common ground first. If we can't agree on some basics, we're not actually having a conversation. We're just talking past each other.

Can we also agree that he is knowledgeable about Magic The Gathering card game?

Here, I'll put in another statement to see if we can agree on it. Cannon received March of The Machines: The Aftermath cards by error (not his fault).
 

Well, I'm a terrible squirrel. It's what I do. I don't know why anyone wouldn't trust clout chasing YouTubers. They all seem like such honest people.
Except - as the excerpt of the article I mentioned earlier said - Wizards hasn't been disputing what the "clout chasing YouTuber" said. They're just saying that what happened isn't illegal - except that part doesn't do anything to build trust. It could have been this guy had decided to take the cards to Friday Night Magic - the store or one of the official judges notify Wizards, and their response is to ask the Pinkertons to send 'round the Goon Squad.

You're getting into "needing to find common ground" - well, we can agree that Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro, is a multi-million dollar corporation that is part of a multi-billion dollar corporation which can afford to pay for lawyers and public relations professionals to craft a statement, and they put forward a statement that was, in summary, "Yes, this happened, and it's not illegal."
 

Except - as the excerpt of the article I mentioned earlier said - Wizards hasn't been disputing what the "clout chasing YouTuber" said. They're just saying that what happened isn't illegal - except that part doesn't do anything to build trust. It could have been this guy had decided to take the cards to Friday Night Magic - the store or one of the official judges notify Wizards, and their response is to ask the Pinkertons to send 'round the Goon Squad.
Actually, they did dispute it. Read the article. It's below the video. 2nd paragraph below the article.
You're getting into "needing to find common ground" - well, we can agree that Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro, is a multi-million dollar corporation that is part of a multi-billion dollar corporation which can afford to pay for lawyers and public relations professionals to craft a statement, and they put forward a statement that was, in summary, "Yes, this happened, and it's not illegal."
I agree with everything you said, except the bolded part as that is not what they said. But the rest, yes, 100% accurate. So what could we agree about Cannon?
 

I agree with everything you said, except the bolded part as that is not what they said. But the rest, yes, 100% accurate. So what could we agree about Cannon?

We agree that Cannon is not a multi-million dollar corporation. We agree that Cannon has some experience playing Magic: The Gathering. We agree he is married. We agree that he did not attempt to retract the previous version of the OGL and replace it with a version that would force publishers to pay considerable royalties to Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro, nor did he lie about those changes in the OGL.

Also - it bears mentioning that the later statement in this article...

...is a backpedal from their earlier statement in this article...

...where they state the Pinkerton agents are part of their investigation.

So, Wizards has changed their story and, considering their similar behavior in the OGL fiasco, they have not earned back the benefit of the doubt, because they have demonstrated that they will outright lie in their statements to the press when a policy blows up in their face.
 

We agree that Cannon is not a multi-million dollar corporation. We agree that Cannon has some experience playing Magic: The Gathering. We agree he is married. We agree that he did not attempt to retract the previous version of the OGL and replace it with a version that would force publishers to pay considerable royalties to Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro, nor did he lie about those changes in the OGL.
Well now you're just being silly. That's not going to lead to a constructive conversation, so I'm going respectfully decline to continue this particular topic with you. Have a great rest of your day, though.
 

Well now you're just being silly. That's not going to lead to a constructive conversation, so I'm going respectfully decline to continue this particular topic with you. Have a great rest of your day, though.
No, I'm not being silly. Wizards has a demonstrated track record, starting with the OGL fiasco, of lying when their policies blow up in their face - and they've basically done so here. This is their first statement from the original article:

When asked for a comment, Wizards of the Coast confirmed that the video, its allegations, and the alleged Pinkerton agents were a “part of their investigation.” When asked for clarification, the company said it had no additional details to share, and did not deny the hiring of Pinkerton to aid in the product retrieval. io9 has reached out to oldschoolmtg for comment.

Here's the second statement from the follow-up article:

Wizards of the Coast says it “strongly refutes this depiction of events, which contradicts both the report from the investigation as well as the conversation between the individual and the Wizards of the Coast representative after the interaction in question.” The company also stated that “under no circumstances would we instruct any employee or contracted agency to intimidate an individual.”

As far as the Pinkertons go - they also, even to this day, have a tendency to overstep their bounds on contracted jobs. In 2020, a Denver TV news station hired the Pinkertons to provide unarmed security to a camera crew covering protests following the death of George Floyd. This particular event was going to have protests from BLM groups and groups in opposition to BLM in close proximity. One of the members of the anti-BLM groups took issue with the local news filming, and attempted to assault the film crew and security. The Pinkerton providing security - who was supposed to be unarmed, and was not licensed to provide armed security, pulled a gun and shot and killed that person. This is not in dispute - there's clear video from another group of reporters. Charges were ultimately dropped by the Denver District Attorney, but the facts remain in evidence - when hiring the Pinkertons, even if you give them clear instructions in terms of the scope of what actions they should take and that they should not escalate - this doesn't mean they'll follow your instructions.

Sources:

By contrast, Cannon is just a guy. He's not an influencer at the level of PewDiePie or the Pauls or even Tolerian Community College, he just has a YouTube channel just like lots of other people, and he did a video of an unboxing just like lots of other people do. Starting from the perspective of viewing him as an "Attention seeking youtuber out for clicks" operates from the perspective that people with YouTube channels are inherently untrustworthy. Admittedly, as someone who has a YouTube channel, I'm predisposed to consider that an unfair statement. So, as things stand, he has not done anything that would make me assume that he is a liar. He, unlike Wizards, has no track record of such things.

I also clearly remember, during the OGL fiasco, a whole lot of shade being thrown at Linda Codega because they wrote for Gizmodo, with their reporting being dismissed as an "attention-seeking gossip-monger out for clicks" - and their reporting was born out as being truthful, so I'm willing to give Codega the benefit of the doubt. Same with Sisi Jiang at Kotaku.

So, with Wizards' statements, there are two possible scenarios for their contradictions:

1) Statement #1 is a lie, statement #2 is what they think is the truth because Wizards was lied to by the Pinkertons. They didn't watch the video before statement #1, nor did they compare the description of events given by Codega to what they were told by the Pinkertons until later, when the brown stuff hit the air circulation device. If this is the case, Wizards is in the wrong because they failed to do their due diligence regarding who they contracted with, in terms of their reputation, in terms of their track record for not escalating when told not to, and in terms of considering the risks of PR backlash, even if the Pinkertons completely behaved themselves. They screwed up, and are refusing to re-evaluate the situation based on the possibility that the organization they contracted with (which has a long-standing reputation of acting like goons) acted like goons.

2) Statement #1 is the truth, and Statement #2 is a lie that they're giving because this just blew up in their face. This fits with what happened with the leaked OGL change, where they repeatedly stated that the final version was going to be nothing like the leaked version (and in some cases claimed the leaked version is a total fabrication). If this is the case, Wizards is in the wrong, because they hired goons, who in turn acted like goons, and then they lied about having hired those goons when things blew up in their face.

If I'm going to give any benefit of the doubt to Wizards here, it would be from the possible perspective that all of this was pushed down from the top by Hasbro (again, members of Hasbro management are former Pinkertons), and Wizards management had no choice in the matter. That doesn't excuse or justify the decisions made by Wizards, but it does explain them.
 


Did you read the article? it wasn't digital files, it was the actual Cards.....


So, how do you prevent future leaks without knowing how you're currently leaking?

I get you all have an automatic dislike for WotC.

And as i pointed out this has happened before:


and WotC got in touch with the content creator and apologized is offering other product.
"I apologize for sending people to your home to intimidate you and to demand you return something that you didn't steal. You should just be grateful we didn't choose a more civilized, polite manner of contacting you and straightening this out with a conversation first because man, polite conversation can be devastating. Before you get your knickers in a twist, we have done this before so that makes our behavior ok. Here's some of our other product which is awesome and has the added bonus of going back in time and removing that unnecessary, stressful moment from existence."

Instead of accusing people as having an "automatic dislike for WotC" maybe you should also consider that maybe you might be too willing to jump to WotC's defense.
 

Except - as the excerpt of the article I mentioned earlier said - Wizards hasn't been disputing what the "clout chasing YouTuber" said. They're just saying that what happened isn't illegal - except that part doesn't do anything to build trust. It could have been this guy had decided to take the cards to Friday Night Magic - the store or one of the official judges notify Wizards, and their response is to ask the Pinkertons to send 'round the Goon Squad.

You're getting into "needing to find common ground" - well, we can agree that Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro, is a multi-million dollar corporation that is part of a multi-billion dollar corporation which can afford to pay for lawyers and public relations professionals to craft a statement, and they put forward a statement that was, in summary, "Yes, this happened, and it's not illegal."
They have disputed the whole intimidation thing. They said it doesn’t match the report they received, the instructions they gave, or the conversation Cannon had with a Wizards rep afterward.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top