WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Faolyn]

Even Cannon said the interaction was "nice and laid back" with the rep.

The representative, sure. But that was a phone conversation with someone who has the specific job of dealing with irate customers.

 

[cranberry]

The bottom line, is that WoTC appears to be tone deaf to optics.

They don't appear to think things through, and rely on after-the-fact damage control.

 

[darjr]

Nvr mind.

 

[Hex08]

deleted

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

See, I'm not sure it really matters if he thought he got the MotM cards and not MotM:tA, or if he knew what he got and thought it was Bank Error In His Favor.

ust wanted to point out that a bank error in your favor doesn't mean you get to keep the money. The bank may require that you be the one to transfer the money, but they can, and will, go to court to force you to. That usually ends up being a lot worse for the person who thought they had a bank error in their favor.

Yes, and yes.

Great, unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree with myself at this time. It's actually unclear what he intended to buy. /It may be he intended to buy The Aftermath cards, and was mailed the cards before the release date by his friend who sold him the cards because the names are similar and the March of The Machines set had already been released. So I'd like to amend the point, so we can agree on it. I'd like to change it to:

Cannon received the cards prior to the release date through some error made by the person who sold it to him.

Which looking back is the same as me saying Cannon received the cards in error (not his fault), so yeah, I guess I wrote all that for nothing. Still, at least we can say its vague how he got the cards, but no indication it was his fault.

The representative, sure. But that was a phone conversation with someone who has the specific job of dealing with irate customers.

Sure, but I mean if you were just threatened and harassed and had large intimidating men force their way into your house, would you be able to have a "nice and laid back" conversation with the rep? Because if you could, you're a better person than I am.

So... on to our next claim:

1. WoTC has earned a bad reputation with a large part of the gaming community.
2. Pinkerton has a bad reputation which has been earned over the lifetime of the company.
3. Cannon has gained subscribers and viewers to his YouTube channel after this incident with WoTC and Pinkerton.


Here is what we agree on so far.
1. Cannon is knowledgeable about Magic: The Gathering card game.
2. Cannon received the cards in error (not his fault)

 

[Faolyn]

ust wanted to point out that a bank error in your favor doesn't mean you get to keep the money.

It's just a phrase.

Sure, but I mean if you were just threatened and harassed and had large intimidating men force their way into your house, would you be able to have a "nice and laid back" conversation with the rep? Because if you could, you're a better person than I am.

I have had very stressful days that have been calmed down by nice, calm service reps on the phone. Including one where Warehouse 23 (SJ Games) tried to charge me $700 for a $7 pdf, and those kinds of things drive me into literal panic attacks. Lovely service rep with a textbook Texan accent did a great job calming me down.

So... on to our next claim:

1. WoTC has earned a bad reputation with a large part of the gaming community.
2. Pinkerton has a bad reputation which has been earned over the lifetime of the company.
3. Cannon has gained subscribers and viewers to his YouTube channel after this incident with WoTC and Pinkerton.

Yes, yes, and I honestly don't know how many subscribers he had before hand, and what's typical for a small YouTuber to gain after receiving any sort publicity.

However, it doesn't matter. To use an extreme example: imagine a person who was wrongfully sent to jail, then later exonerated, freed, and given a large settlement by the government as recompense. That money doesn't make up for the jail time. While what happened to Cannon wasn't jail time, it was still an unnecessary trauma, and getting some more views (at about 18 to 30 cents per view on YouTube) doesn't mean he really benefited from this.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

It's just a phrase.

You are now morally and ethically, as well as legally, obligated to take it back!

I have had very stressful days that have been calmed down by nice, calm service reps on the phone. Including one where Warehouse 23 (SJ Games) tried to charge me $700 for a $7 pdf, and those kinds of things drive me into literal panic attacks. Lovely service rep with a textbook Texan accent did a great job calming me down.

But would you have been calmed down by the rep if you had Pinkerton in your home "taking" your stuff? Is it possible? Sure, but seeing how people react to Pinkerton, I'm under the impression that this would be difficult.

Also, Texan accent? Did they calm you down by pulling a gun on you? It's the Texas way.

Yes, yes, and I honestly don't know how many subscribers he had before hand, and what's typical for a small YouTuber to gain after receiving any sort publicity.

I don't know either, but from my understanding there has been some amount of gain in both subscribers and viewers. How much that gain was is unclear. I'm going to blame the writers of these articles as they are doing a piss-poor job of providing clarity in what the situation was.

However, it doesn't matter.

I think it does, but we'll get to discussing this later on.

To use an extreme example: imagine a person who was wrongfully sent to jail, then later exonerated, freed, and given a large settlement by the government as recompense. That money doesn't make up for the jail time. While what happened to Cannon wasn't jail time, it was still an unnecessary trauma, and getting some more views (at about 18 to 30 cents per view on YouTube) doesn't mean he really benefited from this.

Not to get too into it, but I think the degree to which you are harmed does matter. $100,000,000 for a three day stay in jail? I'm not sure, but I think that would go a long way to helping someone recover from the trauma. $1,000,000 for 50-years in jail? Yeah, that's not going to cut it.
Cannon doesn't seem to have that level of injury, if he in fact had any injury. By injury i mean any type of damage, whether mentally - such as trauman, monetarily, physically, etc. But we'll get to that later on.


So, are there any points you want to toss out for us to agree on? I can throw out a couple of others.
1. The publicity from this incident has further damaged WoTC's reputation with the gaming community.
2. This incident has given Cannon publicity.

 

[Faolyn]

But would you have been calmed down by the rep if you had Pinkerton in your home "taking" your stuff? Is it possible? Sure, but seeing how people react to Pinkerton, I'm under the impression that this would be difficult.

I'm not him. I have no idea how he reacts normally to people threatening him and making his wife cry.

I don't know either, but from my understanding there has been some amount of gain in both subscribers and viewers. How much that gain was is unclear. I'm going to blame the writers of these articles as they are doing a piss-poor job of providing clarity in what the situation was.

I think it does, but we'll get to discussing this later on.

Not to get too into it, but I think the degree to which you are harmed does matter. $100,000,000 for a three day stay in jail? I'm not sure, but I think that would go a long way to helping someone recover from the trauma. $1,000,000 for 50-years in jail? Yeah, that's not going to cut it.
Cannon doesn't seem to have that level of injury, if he in fact had any injury. By injury i mean any type of damage, whether mentally - such as trauman, monetarily, physically, etc. But we'll get to that later on.

The point is, getting a few more views--or a few more hundred or thousand views--does not suddenly make it OK that he was threatened by Pinkertons over products he had legally purchased. That is a completely different thing.

So, are there any points you want to toss out for us to agree on? I can throw out a couple of others.
1. The publicity from this incident has further damaged WoTC's reputation with the gaming community.
2. This incident has given Cannon publicity.

Yes, and I have no idea. People know who he is now. Will this publicity last, or is it just his fifteen minutes and in a few months it'll be "hey, who was that guy that WotC screwed over?"

 

[Count_Zero]

You are now morally and ethically, as well as legally, obligated to take it back!

But would you have been calmed down by the rep if you had Pinkerton in your home "taking" your stuff? Is it possible? Sure, but seeing how people react to Pinkerton, I'm under the impression that this would be difficult.

Also, Texan accent? Did they calm you down by pulling a gun on you? It's the Texas way.

I don't know either, but from my understanding there has been some amount of gain in both subscribers and viewers. How much that gain was is unclear. I'm going to blame the writers of these articles as they are doing a piss-poor job of providing clarity in what the situation was.

I think it does, but we'll get to discussing this later on.

Not to get too into it, but I think the degree to which you are harmed does matter. $100,000,000 for a three day stay in jail? I'm not sure, but I think that would go a long way to helping someone recover from the trauma. $1,000,000 for 50-years in jail? Yeah, that's not going to cut it.
Cannon doesn't seem to have that level of injury, if he in fact had any injury. By injury i mean any type of damage, whether mentally - such as trauman, monetarily, physically, etc. But we'll get to that later on.


So, are there any points you want to toss out for us to agree on? I can throw out a couple of others.
1. The publicity from this incident has further damaged WoTC's reputation with the gaming community.
2. This incident has given Cannon publicity.

I need to clarify something now, as I think it's necessary if this discussion is actually going to go anywhere meaningful:

Are you operating from the assumption that Cannon lied and made all this up - the threats, his wife's tears - to get views?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I need to clarify something now, as I think it's necessary if this discussion is actually going to go anywhere meaningful:

Are you operating from the assumption that Cannon lied and made all this up - the threats, his wife's tears - to get views?

I think he may be exaggerating. I assume you disagree with me. If you'd like we can discuss why we hold the beliefs we hold.