D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Neonchameleon]

You're assuming that those other options won't be brought down. In fact, they kind of already have with the change from Pact to Half casting, which now requires a mindshift. CharOp is now different for the warlock.

We've seen a lot already. Smite, for example, hasn't been seriously brought down in terms of spell slot efficiency - and the smite spells have been buffed. Chaos Bolt is almost exactly where it was. Arcane Burst has a 66% chance of inflicting a 20' radius helpless condition.

And I think that if utterly savage nerfs were planned for all spellcasters they'd be floating that as early as possible while if wide scale spell changes were made to remotely the 3.0 -> 3.5 degree then backwards compatibility would be destroyed.

I'll also point out that if you're suggesting that spell damage and spell effectiveness is going to be nerfed but we've already seen the updated Eldritch Blast rules then the fact that the warlock normally shouldn't be using their standard action to cast a spell in combat for the first eight levels will be even more true. (Warlock optimisation is very easy - just take as few levels of warlock as possible, but there's a lot to be said for a single level for Pact of the Blade in the right build, while two for two invocations can be worthwhile.).

 

[Chaosmancer]

So... really quick thought. One thing about 1dnd that has been annoying me is all the complaints about nerfs. "Martials have been nerfed and not compensated for loss of SS/GWM!" "Rogue damage has been nerfed!" "Cleric staples have been nerfed!" "Paladin smite novas have been nerfed!" And now... "Hex has been nerfed!"

What if... everyone's damage has been nerfed? It really is beginning to look that way to me. Wouldn't that mean its all equalling out in the end, then?

SS/GWM was nerfed because it was too good and made all other options bad. Same with the two-SneakAttacks on Rogue. Maybe they're nerfing Hex because it was too much? Certainly, the old form contributed to the Blade Pact issue.

We haven't really seen a ton of damage spells for full casters. Mostly on the sorcerer with their new signature magics. But it is possible that we're going to see damage nerfed across the board and rebalanced. At least I like to think so.

But we have seen Hunter's Mark, which works like it used to. It activates per hit. Additionally, we know Paladin damage didn't decrease per se, only their ability to Nova, and Druid damage seems to be consistent. So I'm not convinced it has fallen for everyone.

And the Blade PAct issue is the same now as ever, because it is simply a fact of having d10's compared to d8's.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Treatmonk, in my experience, is someone who you have to take everything they say with a grain of salt. Their math is heavily dependent upon monster AC, DM playstyle and a few other factors. And, in truth, his playstyle is not indicative of most other tables.


And... no, we don't know that it was "pretty obviously not the intent" - its entirely plausible that Hex and Hunter's Mark are designed to mirror each other. Its very likely they're thinking about Rangers as well as Warlocks here when they're messing with this spell, so yes, its a good possibility the new Hex is designed with half-casters in mind. Not Pact Magic casters.

We've seen Hunter's Mark, not only was it not changed, Rangers can do it without concentration now, and at higher levels the damage of it increased.

Compared to hex, they are absolutely no longer mirrors, and there was nothing wrong with them being mirrors.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I can't recall. Did they clamp down on Fireball as an "always take"?

I very much doubt it will be nerfed. The Arcane Eruption spell is 4th level, 6d6, same area as fireball, and has random conditions. I don't see them nerfing fireball with that in mind.

 

[mellored]

IMO, low level spells need a little buffed, high level ones need toned down. As a level 1 wizard is pretty useless, but at level 20 it's OP.

Burning hands should do 4d6
Magic missile needs an extra dart.
Entangle should slow on a fail.
Fireball should be 6d6
Wall of force should have 200 hit points.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I imagine there is going to be a magic packet down the road. We've only seen a handful of spells and aside from the new class feature spells, none with the mage packet. (A problem with cramming them in with fighters and weapons).

I would not be surprised if fireball is adjusted, but I will not be shocked if it isn't.

I would loove for fireball to be down graded tto ONLY as good as other 3rd level spells

 

[codo]

So... really quick thought. One thing about 1dnd that has been annoying me is all the complaints about nerfs. "Martials have been nerfed and not compensated for loss of SS/GWM!" "Rogue damage has been nerfed!" "Cleric staples have been nerfed!" "Paladin smite novas have been nerfed!" And now... "Hex has been nerfed!"

What if... everyone's damage has been nerfed? It really is beginning to look that way to me. Wouldn't that mean its all equalling out in the end, then?

I don't think that all damage has been nerfed. Rather, all damage with exponential growth potential has been nerfed. Most of the abilities that added damage onto each individual attack have been removed. Overall it looks like most 1D&D charters are doing more damage overall. The only characters that might be doing less damage are incredibly specifically optimized overpowered characters that did several times more damage than the average character.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

How the hell is agonizing blast still not just baked into the class? One invocation basically doubles your at will damage output. Anyone not taking it is seriously gimping themselves, particularly with the slower spell aquisition. They may as well have made sneak attack an opt-in to noob trap people.

 

[Neonchameleon]

How the hell is agonizing blast still not just baked into the class? One invocation basically doubles your at will damage output. Anyone not taking it is seriously gimping themselves, particularly with the slower spell aquisition. They may as well have made sneak attack an opt-in to noob trap people.

It's baked into tomelocks. It's not baked into bladelocks because it's not necessary on weapon wielders (although it might be a good idea to bake it in); I'd be interested in a Bladelock invocation that let them have an eldritch sting offhand attack. It's not baked into the pact of the chain because ... balancing's the only thing I can come up with.

 

[codo]

How the hell is agonizing blast still not just baked into the class? One invocation basically doubles your at will damage output. Anyone not taking it is seriously gimping themselves, particularly with the slower spell aquisition. They may as well have made sneak attack an opt-in to noob trap people.

It's not baked into the class because 1/3 of Warlocks use their Pact weapon for at-will damage, not eldritch blast. One of the worst things about 5e was that before the hexblade was released (which was basically an errata for Pact of the Blade, and caused more than its share of problems), even with the most optimized Pact of the Blade Warlock would still do more damage with Eldritch Blast than their Pact Blade. Pact of the blade was literally a trap, even if in you spend all of your character resources optimize your blade, Eldritch Blast was always the better option.