D&D 5E A Warlock Without Spells?

[Paul Farquhar]

For example, eldritch smite which uses a spell slot could be used once. If you select it again you can use it twice, etc. Whether those would come back on a short or long rest requires more discussion.

That's a massive nerf of an already weak invocation, even at once per short rest. I think what's going to happen is you will run out of good invocations, and be left picking things that duplicate spells, so it's not gaining anything in terms of simplicity.

 

[ezo]

That's a massive nerf of an already weak invocation, even at once per short rest.

If you have 20 to select, you could easily pick it up to 4 times and it functions the same as RAW then.

I think what's going to happen is you will run out of good invocations, and be left picking things that duplicate spells, so it's not gaining anything in terms of simplicity.

I don't think so, but we'll see what happens if we try it out.

 

[TwoSix]

The warmage from Mage Hand Press is a good design for a class that’s focused on a scaling cantip and a bunch of invocations. Might be able to steal some ideas from it.

Warmage | Base Class - Mage Hand Press

Unleash the fury of your cantrips with the Warmage base class for 5th edition. Master the fundamentals of magic and reign supreme!

magehandpress.com

 

[Steampunkette]

SRD - Warlock

srd.dndtools.org

Warlocks don't have spell slots in 3.5. Most of their invocations were at-will Supernatural abilities, though some were straight up spell-like abilities. This is in part what I'm basing my A5e Warcaster on for Martial Artistry.

Enjoy.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Simple question for an idea a player had...

Could more Eldritch Invocations replace having spells? Beginning at 1st level you gain know a number of Eldritch Invocations equal to your level. For multiclassing, we don't do level-dips, so don't worry about that aspect. MC characters have to keep their levels within 1 level for each class.

The idea is some invocations could be taken more than once, and others would have to be re-written to accomodate the idea of course since spell slots wouldn't be part of the class.

Would this be an overall power bump or not? I don't use warlocks often so would like other peoples' input. Thanks.

It would be a substantial power drop, in the absence of a LOT of new, powerful invocations.

That said, I'm not totally against the idea. I just think the existing invocations are designed specifically under the presumption that Warlocks cast spells.

 

[Neonchameleon]

As a rule of thumb with 0 short rests a warlock has the casting power of a subclass (arcane trickster/Eldritch knight), with one a half caster, and with two a full caster. They are balanced round 1.5 I think.

But their burst power comes from their magic, and hex is a bad spell, only ever having the power of a first level spell (the point of up casting is to cheat it into play and then have your short rest).

And you need a bit more than an invocation per level; 2024 warlocks have five invocations by level 5 anyway, and 2014 warlocks have notoriously bad scaling from levels 6 to 10 and feel a long way behind.

 

[Tessarael]

And you need a bit more than an invocation per level; 2024 warlocks have five invocations by level 5 anyway, and 2014 warlocks have notoriously bad scaling from levels 6 to 10 and feel a long way behind.

Both the A5E Warlock and the 2024 PHB Warlock are significantly better designed than the 2014 PHB version in my opinion. The A5E Warlock scaling has seemed fine to me - I've played one from level 1 to 8 so far.

Then if you're not giving them spell slots or spell points, based on the A5E Warlock:

• Give them more Eldritch Invocations, one at each level where they would get a higher level spell slot, at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9.
• Eldritch Ray and Eldritch Scythe are good. Add in Agonizing Blast for more damage.
• Eldritch Severance and Eldritch Squall, proficiency bonus times per short rest, with Warlock level 3 prerequisite (lowered from level 7).
• I would keep cantrip progression for a non-spell casting Warlock to keep them versatile in that manner.
• Give them access to the 2024 PHB Eldritch Invocations that have lower level requirements. For example, Fog Dance could be reduced to a level 3 Eldritch Invocation; Fiendish Vigor gives 12 HP; Ascendent Step had been reduced from level 9 to 5, etc.
  • Noting that these are spell-like powers, if you want to avoid that completely, then switch to A5E combat maneuvers (e.g., see the Warlock Martialist from MoAR Battlemages) and an exertion pool of 2x proficiency bonus.

It would be a little under-powered in versatility vs. a Warlock blaster build. You might need to give them +d10 damage on the Eldritch Severance and Eldritch Squall.

 

[Baron Opal II]

The goal would be to create a "magic-using" but simpler class.
...
I'll see if I can find a write-up online then. Thanks!

I don't remember where, but I remember finding it only a few months ago. It's a fan site, pretty accurate but not 100% information, I think.

I used it for a custom class I made for some kids back in the day. I only finished Gryffindor House, but a selection of at-will, Constant (but one at a time), and 1/day abilities worked really well for a precocious 8 year old.

(snif... they grow up so fast...)

 

[Minigiant]

You mean a Warhammer Chaos Warrior?