M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[AnotherGuy]

Never meet your heroes, you know?

I recently decided to look up one of my favourite writers of Green Lantern back in the 90's (Gerard Jones - he had written the brilliant but short-lived and under-appreciated Mosaic series) and was disappointed that he had been convicted with possession of child pornography.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Sorry, I haven't readen the previous post, but I would like to say my opinion is to stop all that "poison", using a soft word, we should promote the good sense and the respect for the human dignity.

Some artist created true wonders, but in their private lifes they weren't good people. And I warn we could find a lot of "rotten apples" in Hollywood.

Usually we can separate the artist and the work, but when this is used to promote negative messages.

 

[Blue Orange]

I have used Tekumel in the past for inspiration, but it's far too detailed and complicated of a setting for me to use even remotely as is.

That's kind of the problem Tekumel has, I think. People go back and forth about Lovecraft's legacy, but tentacle monsters from outside the universe, things so horrible you go nuts if you see them, and the idea of humanity being as insignificant to the true masters of the universe as bugs are to us...are all high-concept ideas that are pretty generic and portable. Tekumel has a complicated mythology and social structure that mixes multiple non-Western (and thus less familiar) sources. It's hard to describe in a few sentences.

As an aside to barkerfan, I don't think you have to delete your account because you were wrong about something.

In fact...you may have neither the time nor the inclination, but if you really are Jewish, you might be just the right person to kick Tekumel off again and bring it to a new generation. (I'm guessing from your handle you were a big fan of his work.) The Foundation (assuming they're not Nazis themselves) might be happy to have you on board. It's a nice sub-creation, to quote another famous world-builder, and I'd hate to see it fall into complete obscurity. Nazis don't really use Tekumel for their own stuff, as far as I know, so there isn't the risk for you there would be making a Norse mythology game, say.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

I put my books away. I can seperate the artist from the work, but the organization that continues to publish the work knew about the allegations a long time before it became widely public and I decided that their reaction rang false. I appreciate that it is not being hidden any longer (link above that I posted), but there are so many other works that are free from this issue so better to spend my time there. Supporting Nazis is not on my list of things to do.

 

[Willie the Duck]

The Foundation (assuming they're not Nazis themselves) might be happy to have you on board.

There's no reason to think they are. Barker kept this part of himself hidden from his gaming circles, which is who the Foundation represents. They are butchers and bankers and candlestick makers who happened to game with Barker (and know him as that crazy inventive GM who made an RPG back in the early days of gaming).

 

[MGibster]

It's rough coming to terms with learning the creator of something you love was in many ways a terrible person. Most of us have flaws, sure, but supporting Holocaust denial is beyond the foibles of most people. A lot of people don't know how to reconcile what they learn a bout an artist's personal life and their work. I majored in history as a graduate student, so I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that people can be bastards, especially people who lived in the past, as it's something I've just come to accept. I still listen to Wagner, I still like movies Harvey Weinstein produced, and I am a fan of H.P. Lovecraft's works.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go read The Mists of Avalon since nothing can possible ruin that for me.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

There's no reason to think they are. Barker kept this part of himself hidden from his gaming circles, which is who the Foundation represents. They are butchers and bankers and candlestick makers who happened to game with Barker (and know him as that crazy inventive GM who made an RPG back in the early days of gaming).

I find that hard to believe. The relationship was more than just playing in his game for some of them, some of them have poured over Barker's private papers for years, and the allegation was known for quite a while before it flared into full public view. I think that the current public statement on the website is good, but too little too late.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I find that hard to believe. The relationship was more than just playing in his game for some of them, some of them have poured over Barker's private papers for years, and the allegation was known for quite a while before it flared into full public view. I think that the current public statement on the website is good, but too little too late.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant when he got these people involved in his life to begin with. After his death, they undoubtedly got to see more of what went on under the hood of his life. Chirine's comments kinda suggest that he had given them a certain amount of time to make a statement of their own, and then made his findings public when they didn't.

My point is that they were gaming people who got involved with a game (because of an interest in gaming), inherited the game IP after his death, and then* found out he had some dirtbag beliefs (and failed to be forthcoming for a significant time). We have no reason to believe that they themselves harbored the same beliefs as Barker.
*unless he'd exhibited outward indicators of his beliefs, in which case they might have had suspicions.

Everything I've heard about the Foundation (before this all blew up) is that they are like if your uncle Joe was part of a poker group, and one of the group dies and leaves everyone else an old inactive bauxite mine. They each think 'well there has to be some profit to be had in this thing,' but no one really knows how to achieve that (because one guy in in advertising and the other a barber and so on). So they just kind of sit on the thing, protecting their IP rights but not really producing much with it.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant when he got these people involved in his life to begin with. After his death, they undoubtedly got to see more of what went on under the hood of his life. Chirine's comments kinda suggest that he had given them a certain amount of time to make a statement of their own, and then made his findings public when they didn't.

My point is that they were gaming people who got involved with a game (because of an interest in gaming), inherited the game IP after his death, and then* found out he had some dirtbag beliefs (and failed to be forthcoming for a significant time). We have no reason to believe that they themselves harbored the same beliefs as Barker.
*unless he'd exhibited outward indicators of his beliefs, in which case they might have had suspicions.

Everything I've heard about the Foundation (before this all blew up) is that they are like if your uncle Joe was part of a poker group, and one of the group dies and leaves everyone else an old inactive bauxite mine. They each think 'well there has to be some profit to be had in this thing,' but no one really knows how to achieve that (because one guy in in advertising and the other a barber and so on). So they just kind of sit on the thing, protecting their IP rights but not really producing much with it.

I doubt that anyone in the current Foundation shares any of the Nazi beliefs. I also think they knew much sooner and did nothing until they had no choice.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant when he got these people involved in his life to begin with. After his death, they undoubtedly got to see more of what went on under the hood of his life. Chirine's comments kinda suggest that he had given them a certain amount of time to make a statement of their own, and then made his findings public when they didn't.
...
So they just kind of sit on the thing, protecting their IP rights but not really producing much with it.

The Foundation either doesn't know how to turn their data into profit, or wants to find a game designer or author who will work on the cheap to develop and market Tekumel. It could be a big seller, but it would take significant marketing effort to entice people to game in a realm with a decidedly non-Euro culture. I don't think the Foundation wants to pay for that.

With the announcement, whatever uncritical ignorance, or even willful blindness, there may have been is gone. Now, marketing Tekumel would be more difficult, and the Foundation's payday even further minimized.

It's rough coming to terms with learning the creator of something you love was in many ways a terrible person.
...
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go read The Mists of Avalon since nothing can possible ruin that for me.

Owie.