D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Bard

[Benjamin Olson]

I think choosing Arcane, Divine, or Primal is a complete and abject lore failure. To me the essence of the class is being the class that transgresses the arbitrary boundaries between what other classes can do. A Bard should be a liminal, transgressive figure, much as the historic wandering entertainers we are vaguely evoking were to the societies they operated in and around (albeit in different, non-magical ways).

There should just be a Bard spell list. Even if we must stick with this Arcane, Divine, Primal system for everyone else I would find that a fraction as objectionable if Bards got their own list.

On an initial skim the rest of the class looked good to me, except that Font of Inspiration should (and always should have) come at level 1. Having d6s for it, and not having gotten a Charisma ASI yet is plenty of limitation on inspiration in tier 1 play. Having it be long rest based for four levels just demotes it to a ribbon ability until level 5.

 

[mellored]

Overall there are more per-short rest mechanics in this packet than I had feared from previous packets that seemed to be moving everything to per-proficiency bonus-per-long rest. This means the Short Rest still has an important role in the game, even if it's going to be quite variable. Song of Rest might give the Bards that healing element even if they choose the Arcane Spell List, and if you're worried about an additional resource, tie its usage to Bardic Inspiration or burning a spell slot instead.

The more short rest stuff each class has, the less variable it will be.

 

[Marandahir]

The more short rest stuff each class has, the less variable it will be.

What? No. Short Rest recharges are important to ward off 5MWD. We just need to not tie so much to it that the character is useless if the DM doesn't allow the characters to take a short rest.

But there's a lot of different variability in how the short rest recharges are working, so I don't understand your statement, I guess.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think choosing Arcane, Divine, or Primal is a complete and abject lore failure. To me the essence of the class is being the class that transgresses the arbitrary boundaries between what other classes can do. A Bard should be a liminal, transgressive figure, much as the historic wandering entertainers we are vaguely evoking were to the societies they operated in and around (albeit in different, non-magical ways).

There should just be a Bard spell list. Even if we must stick with this Arcane, Divine, Primal system for everyone else I would find that a fraction as objectionable if Bards got their own list.

How is breaking this generally unbreakable limit not transgressive? And sure, maybe to you bards are transgressive figures, but to me they are historians more than anything else.

On an initial skim the rest of the class looked good to me, except that Font of Inspiration should (and always should have) come at level 1. Having d6s for it, and not having gotten a Charisma ASI yet is plenty of limitation on inspiration in tier 1 play. Having it be long rest based for four levels just demotes it to a ribbon ability until level 5.

I will partially agree here. I really think you could just make the inspiration dice short rest and give something else at 5th level.

 

[Maxperson]

The problem is the Bardic Inspiration is worthless to other players who play a caster.

Currently, even the Bard can use Inspiration to make the Bards own sword attack a successful hit.

The problem is becoming worthless to other players. There fails to be "support" here for characters who are casters.

Is there something that I'm missing? It seems like adding inspiration to a d20 test which includes spell attacks, saving throws and skill checks would be very useful to a caster. Especially if trying to save an important spell that is potentially having concentration disrupted.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

How is breaking this generally unbreakable limit not transgressive?

Cordoning them off to be a master of one of three trades goes against the spirit of them being a jack of them all. The bard to me is a character who ignores the boring lecture about the grand taxonomy of magical types and just picks up the smattering of spells that suits his needs.

And sure, maybe to you bards are transgressive figures, but to me they are historians more than anything else.

Interesting take. A good historian should also be multidisciplinary.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Eh, we can now drop the dead weight of Paladins, Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Fighters and Rogues and just have a Bard to do each one more competently and with more fitting thematics.

 

[Ashrym]

Giving bards access to all spells in the game? Surprising but... acceptable.
On first glance, as a full spellcaster, this makes them the most powerful spellcaster class. Why play a cleric if you can play a Divine bard? Why play a druid if you can play a Primal bard? Why a wizard if you can play an Arcane bard?
The saving grace is that they remain a "spells known" class while the cleric, druid, and wizard can change their spells every long rest. And by the time the bard gets access to other magical traditions, most of their spells are already locked into the first one, so expanding outward is going to be a slow process.

It doesn't make them powerful. It gives a variety of options. A divine bard is never going to heal like a life cleric or blast like an evoker. A person would play a druid for wildshape and subclass abilities.

I do believe that daily preparation and all three spell lists combines to be to much versatility, but just having that access doesn't let bards do with those spells what other classes can.

Magical secrets was an over-rated feature. ;-)

...the lack of Song of Rest are my only desired changes for the 2024 Bard at this point. Otherwise the revisions seem perfect to me.

Song of rest is thematic and useful but ultimately replaceable by the healer feat or spells. I will miss it but can deal if there's a concern with too many bard benefits.

Cordoning them off to be a master of one of three trades goes against the spirit of them being a jack of them all. The bard to me is a character who ignores the boring lecture about the grand taxonomy of magical types and just picks up the smattering of spells that suits his needs.


Interesting take. A good historian should also be multidisciplinary.

Bards aren't a master of any of them.

Compare a bard to a cleric, for example. The cleric can can more easily swap spells, has more cantrips, adds potent cantrip, has a lot more spells prepared from domain spells, and can improve spellcasting via subclass.

Clerics are better with the divine spell list than bards are. It's not like a bard can heal like a life cleric, cover rituals from a spell book or recover spell slots like a wizard, or use metamagic like a sorcerer.

The UA bard "spell preparation" mechanic allows for learning 8 spells from any list and possibly exchanging 11 from leveling up under that mechanic. That's never going to master any list.

Eh, we can now drop the dead weight of Paladins, Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Fighters and Rogues and just have a Bard to do each one more competently and with more fitting thematics.

How exactly is this new UA bard replacing any of those classes?

 

[Neonchameleon]

The only class the bard might be able to beat at their own game is the dance bard and the monk. And that's not the bard's fault.

 

[Horwath]

Also much like how Clerics and Druids get an "order" that they can choose, I think Bards should too. I know picking your spell list can be seen as sort of a choice of Order, but what if you want a more "fightery" Bard and don't want to wait to 3rd level.

this is why subclasses need to start at 1st level.

1st level features do not need to be big.

Just need all proficiencies(armor, weapons, skills) and bonus (1st level) spells that class will need.
3rd level can be left for more "juicier" features that give power to the class.

I.E.
College of Valor
1st level:
Martial training

3rd level:
Combat inspiration

College of Dance
1st level
Unarmored defense
Bardic damage

3rd level:
Agile strikes
Inspiring movement

College of Glamour
1st level:
Mantle of inspiration

3rd level:
Beguiling magic

College of Lore
1st level:
Bonus proficiencies

3rd level:
Cutting words