D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Bard

[Maxperson]

So instead of three bards meeting at a bar, and all three of them having vastly different options in what they can do, you want them to meet at a bar and all three have the exact same options, to represent their ability to just grab what magic they need.

You want vanilla cake and @Benjamin Olson wants chocolate cake. What I want is marble cake. I want the bard list like Benjamin Olson wants, but I also want variety from the various lists like you want. I don't see why Magical Secrets can't happen 5 times over the 20 levels giving the bard 10 spells of choice from outside the bard specific spell list as a good mix of what both of you want.

P.S. Please don't read into the flavors chosen. I needed those two to make marble cake.

 

[WanderingMystic]

You want vanilla cake and @Benjamin Olson wants chocolate cake. What I want is marble cake. I want the bard list like Benjamin Olson wants, but I also want variety from the various lists like you want. I don't see why Magical Secrets can't happen 5 times over the 20 levels giving the bard 10 spells of choice from outside the bard specific spell list as a good mix of what both of you want.

P.S. Please don't read into the flavors chosen. I needed those two to make marble cake.

Even if it was just 1 spell of your choice for 1st -5th level spells like a make your own domain spells list that would make me happy and make me feel like I could creat any type of bard I envision

 

[Chaosmancer]

I love Jack of Trades. I don’t like having to push back on Bard abilities I think are great.

I also think the Ranger could get more — more of their Link-esque stamina exploration features, and earlier. I think the solution is broaden Deft Explorer, not narrow Bard spell lists.

The Arcane/Divine/Primal(/Psionic?) Bard split is a brilliant piece of storytelling that has cracked open the concept of the Bard in a way I never predicted but adore. It may mean enhancing other classes to ensure niche protection. But I don’t think a single build of Bard explicitly replaces all Rangers. It emulates them, but it’s different…

Oh, I agree with that. The ranger needs a little bit more, and they will be fine.

But I do think a bard can emulate them pretty closely if the bard really tried hard to do so.

 

[Chaosmancer]

While I can see why other people like the options this gives you, on a personal level I just don't like the ability to choose what magic school you pick your spells from at first level. I want my bard to have charm like abilities regardless of what spell list I can choose from and most charm spells are arcane. So if I want my bard to have even 1 healing spells before 10th level I have to take primal or divine and miss out on all of the other spells I want.

If you could at 3rd or even 5th level start picking 1 or two spells from another list then it would tolerable.

Even if it was just 1 spell of your choice for 1st -5th level spells like a make your own domain spells list that would make me happy and make me feel like I could creat any type of bard I envision

Maybe. I think it doesn't bother me too much though. I don't feel like I need both trickery and enchantment AND healing. I know it is a traditional bard fantasy, but I'm not sure I need it.

That being said, I wouldn't want to give them an extra spell from any list for 1st thru 5th spells. That feels a bit too strong, though I can't pinpoint why.

Thinking on it further... This is a rare instance where I think a feat is the answer. I usually don't say this, but the more I think on it... that's the answer. Magic Initiate is a 1st level feat and it adds a 1st level spell to your list. IF you go arcane bard, take it and get your prefered healing option. If you go primal or divine, then take it and get charm person. Or focus on a subclass, Glamour has a lot of charm and enchantment flavor to go along with the right list.

They aren't perfect solutions, and I wouldn't be against a reliable way to get enchantment and healing, but I think it is a fine trade-off for me personally.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I agree that it does feel like too much without loosing something that the bard already has and while I do mourn the loose of my songs of restoration I am glad to have jack of all trades earlier. Since magical initiate is a background feat it's not so bad.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Yeah, the lack of song of rest hit me, but I guess making most non-spell healing abilities a priest thing makes sense

I think that gets to the use, or lack thereof, of short rests in different games.

I.e. over 3 years & 6 levels of bi-weekly game play, my group has only intentionally taken 2 short rests and only 1 had healing (the other was for the monk & warlock to recharge after being flat out). (We have also had long rests interrupted so we wound up with short rests).

Is my experience typical? No clue, but it seems to be very variable by group.

 

[Marandahir]

Huh. I’ve had far more short rests than long rests in my games, because my players were use to short rests between encounters from when we played 4e.

AEDU and all. Just made sense.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Unless you have a dedicated healbot who is wasting their slots on healing just on principle... I don't see how you can avoid short rests. They are how you heal.

Well, I can see it if you know you will only ever have one fight per day and then go back to sleep right after. But that's a bit of a unique script that the GM has to choose to follow every day. Days like that may well occasionally happen, but to be so sure of it? Just seems weird.

 

[bedir than]

Why play a cleric if you can play a Divine bard? Why play a druid if you can play a Primal bard? Why a wizard if you can play an Arcane bard?

Because there's very different story between these options

While I can see why other people like the options this gives you, on a personal level I just don't like the ability to choose what magic school you pick your spells from at first level. I want my bard to have charm like abilities regardless of what spell list I can choose from and most charm spells are arcane. So if I want my bard to have even 1 healing spells before 10th level I have to take primal or divine and miss out on all of the other spells I want.

If you could at 3rd or even 5th level start picking 1 or two spells from another list then it would tolerable.

An easy way to have a single heal would be to take Magic Initiate, a 1st level feat.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

An easy way to have a single heal would be to take Magic Initiate, a 1st level feat.

Which is also the powerful pick (if you have spell slots, that is), because of Healing Word popping anyone back into the fight as a bonus action.