D&D General Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more

[Ruin Explorer]

But perhaps I happened to fall into some of the only relatively positive choices by accident? Wouldn't be the first time.

I would imagine so. I don't mean to suggest Larian lack talent, either - they started with some and have acquired better and better writers as they went on. The reworking of DOS2 into the EE definitely made it significantly less depressing (as well as mitigating though not fixing a lot of issues in the last two acts).

But even as of the start of BG3 Early Access they were clearly coming in with "This is going to be so morally grey!!!", and this immediately caused a problem for them. Literally one of the first bits of major feedback they got from players, when the Early Access started was "Why are all my choices negative?" and "Why are all my companions jerks?", and they started changing stuff from there. Even when I started the "companions == jerks" issue was still ongoing, but like literally every content patch has mitigated or reduced it to the point where it's no longer an issue. They did say "Oh these companions are the meanest ones for Evil PCs, we wanted to use them because otherwise people would go with the nice ones always!", but that didn't really fly, because initially the level of jerkitude was off the scale and it doesn't really matter if you're Good or Evil, you don't usually want a party full of people who you want to slap, do you? < He said, looking meaningfully at Iron Bull, Anders, Sera, Sebastian, Carth and Minsc > As of the final EA patch there were still a few places where you inexplicably only had bad choices despite there being a fairly obvious good choice that was also physically achievable, but they'd really cut down on that too. There were still some weird issues where Paladins (only introduced in that patch) were being labeled oathbreakers for no good reason (or vice-versa), but I expect they'll catch most of those - I won't play a Paladin on launch though because there were so many, and I expect it'll take quite a lot of time to work all those out.

I was pretty skeptical of BG3 for a long time, I must say, but as of the last few patches they've really pulled something special together, and whilst I expect it'll be horrifically buggy on launch, it'll also probably be the most "interactive" CRPG for a very, very long time, for better or worse, and has a staggering amount of stuff to do.

 

[Burnside]

Having played more than 100 hours of Baldur's Gate 3 in Early Access, it's everything I could ask for in a 5E CRPG.

Larian has been incredibly responsive to feedback throughout EA. I can't wait for this game. The amount of depth and choices and permutations to the reactive play is stunning, and the writing is among the best I have seen in a CRPG ever, period.

Anybody claiming the that the actual writing - as in dialogue and narration - in BG1 or BG2 (both of which I played to death, and loved) is better than BG3 is looking at those games through rose-colored glasses.

FWIW, I loved these CRPGS:
Baldur's Gate I & II, Planescape: Torment, Fallout (original through 4), Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, Shadowrun: Hong Kong, Dragon Age (all of them), Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Icewind Dale

I think Solasta is fine.

I didn't really care for either of Owlcat's Pathfinder games, NOR do I particularly like Larian's Divinity: Original Sin games.

The closest comparison I can make with Baldur's Gate 3 is to the Dragon Age games, except the graphics and combat are better, there are no "collect all the crystals"-style quests, and there is even more player agency.

I would also add that the quality of the writing, and general encounter design, is stronger in BG3 than in the majority of official 5E adventures. And I say that as somebody who generally LIKES the official 5E adventures.

I haven't looked forward to a game so much in years - mostly because the extended EA has give me so much confidence in it.

I am also looking forward to Starfield, but far more worried that Starfield could be a hot mess than I am about BG3.

 

[Burnside]

I was hoping for a full 1-20 campaign, level cap at 12 seems too low.

I really don't see how a CRPG could reasonably deal with many of the 8th and 9th level spells in D&D.

TBH even WotC barely bothers to even try to design something that works for tier 4 5E at the table, never mind trying to get a CRPG to do that.

 

[cbwjm]

I really don't see how a CRPG could reasonably deal with many of the 8th and 9th level spells in D&D.

TBH even WotC barely bothers to even try to design something that works for tier 4 5E at the table, never mind trying to get a CRPG to do that.

They have in the past for games of different editions. Not every spell needs to be in the game either, just enough of a selection.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Anybody claiming the that the actual writing - as in dialogue and narration - in BG1 or BG2 (both of which I played to death, and loved) is better than BG3 is looking at those games through rose-colored glasses.

I don't think anyone is. The writing in those is very different (more "melodrama-centric"), and, at this point, definitely inferior. It's also extremely sparse compared to BG3.

However BG1/2 are slightly more locked into the Forgotten Realms setting, tonally and in terms of lore, than Act 1 of BG3 is. We shall see re: Act 2 & Act 3, hopefully Act 1 was Larian learning.

I would also add that the quality of the writing, and general encounter design, is stronger in BG3 than in the majority of official 5E adventures. And I say that as somebody who generally LIKES the official 5E adventures.

BG3 is better than 98% of WotC adventures by a very long margin, I'd say. To be fair, though, it's a fundamentally different approach, and involves a vastly larger amount of better-directed effort being put in.

I didn't really care for either of Owlcat's Pathfinder games, NOR do I particularly like Larian's Divinity: Original Sin games.

At the start of EA and for some time, the writing and event design for BG3 was very similar to DOS2. However over time, thanks to Larian being pelted with feedback and actually listening, that's changed considerably, and for the better.

Owlcat has had some issues with their writing where they've had some really well-done characters (Daeran, for example), but a lot of either very bland or shallowly obnoxious ones. Probably the very worst writing in either is Jubilost in PF:KM, where not only is he obnoxious and very exposition-y and not much else (albeit calming down slightly later on), but much worse, the PC is artificially written to be a total stooge/moron when talking to him (regardless of INT/CHA, ranks in Diplomancy, and so on), and he's allowed to verbally push the PC around despite having no power over them. It's bizarre, the literary equivalent of forcing PC to take a dive in boxing. To be fair to them, when they did a similarly obnoxious know-it-all character in Wrath of the Righteous (Nenio), Owlcat made sure to include plenty of ways to snark them, and checks to know the answers to their questions, and so on. So they do learn.

The closest comparison I can make with Baldur's Gate 3 is to the Dragon Age games, except the graphics and combat are better, there are no "collect all the crystals"-style quests, and there is even more player agency.

I daresay the graphics thing will only remain true until DA4 comes out (probably next year), because the last DA was 2015. And combat-wise it's silly to compare. One is a series with RtwP with fairly tight balance (DA2/DAI - DA:O has much looser balance to be fair), the other is turn-based and a sort of slightly buffed 5E (so very loose balance by comparison). "Collect the crystals"-type was a DAI-specific aberration too, not representative of the series.

However it does seem like we have significantly more room to change the story generally than any DA game, if what can happen in Act 1 is reflected in later acts, anyway.

The only place it slightly falls behind DA as a series is that the writing of the non-companion characters isn't nearly as convincing as DA, at least in Act 1. The companion characters are extremely well-done, even at this point, with only one act. It's hard to put a finger on the issue with the non-companions, but I think a lot of it comes down to, once you're actually in conversation with them, them often seeming too PC-centric in their interests/motivations, and often with very simplistic and not entirely believable motivations. Hopefully the Jason Isaacs and JK Simmons characters will help with this - and it might just be that because Act 1 is about gathering companions, that's why pretty much anyone with more depth than a puddle is a companion.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think anyone is. The writing in those is very different (more "melodrama-centric"), and, at this point, definitely inferior. It's also extremely sparse compared to BG3.

This. We are not saying BG3 isn't good, we are just trying to give an idea what the game is actually like, since some folk seem to have a false impression.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I don't see how BG3 can be epic level tier, or even much into high tier, is because of the map.

One of the big changes ime with getting high level is the freedom of travel. Just simply acquiring a ship or hippogriff mounts (possibly mid-tier) is that they open up destination options within a radius of hundreds of miles.

BG3 is limited to a river in the middle of the Sword Coast.

I think a radical map design and travel options would be needed for epic tier. I don't see any DLC being able to address this.

 

[MarkB]

I don't see how BG3 can be epic level tier, or even much into high tier, is because of the map.

One of the big changes ime with getting high level is the freedom of travel. Just simply acquiring a ship or hippogriff mounts (possibly mid-tier) is that they open up destination options within a radius of hundreds of miles.

BG3 is limited to a river in the middle of the Sword Coast.

I think a radical map design and travel options would be needed for epic tier. I don't see any DLC being able to address this.

If they go the way of the original games, DLC will only add a few extra levels' worth of content. Heading up to the really high-tier levels of play would be the province of a full-scale sequel.

 

[Burnside]

I don't see how BG3 can be epic level tier, or even much into high tier, is because of the map.

One of the big changes ime with getting high level is the freedom of travel. Just simply acquiring a ship or hippogriff mounts (possibly mid-tier) is that they open up destination options within a radius of hundreds of miles.

BG3 is limited to a river in the middle of the Sword Coast.

I think a radical map design and travel options would be needed for epic tier. I don't see any DLC being able to address this.

The game's prologue is set in Avernus, and tbh I'm pretty sure there will be some other extraplanar stuff even in the level 1-12 campaign as it is. That would be the most obvious way to do higher level material.

Chapter 1, which we have in EA, makes extensive use of the Underdark, which is also not "on the map".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't see how BG3 can be epic level tier, or even much into high tier, is because of the map.

One of the big changes ime with getting high level is the freedom of travel. Just simply acquiring a ship or hippogriff mounts (possibly mid-tier) is that they open up destination options within a radius of hundreds of miles.

BG3 is limited to a river in the middle of the Sword Coast.

I think a radical map design and travel options would be needed for epic tier. I don't see any DLC being able to address this.

It's not a contiguous open world game like Witcher 3 or Skyrim. The datamined map is for overland travel, and may well be just for Act 2. It doesn't represent the limits of the locations that can be visited in the game (it doesn't show Avernus for a start).

The Throne of Bhaal was a decidedly epic level level adventure, ending in becoming a God, but it had the smallest regional map. The Baldur's Gate games have never been about going wherever you want, you only go where the story gives you reason to go,