D&D (2024) UA Ranger (Playtest 6)

[Minigiant]

What did you mean?

I mean the ranger when it was created all the way onto 2e, had a clear theme.

Rangers were trackers and hunters who fight the dangerous elements of the wilderness. It was based on the concept of Aragorn who had skills to better track, survive, and hunt the monsters of the wild. Beasts, violent tribals, wild armies, and giants and giantkin.

Since D&D lacked a deep skill system, many of Aragorn and other iconic ranger type's skills were made into spells.

The 5e have copied those spells but forgotten what those spells where for. Because they've forgotten the theme.

Rangers are hunters, trackers, and survivalists of a fantasy world. Therefore if they have magic it would be pragmatic. And pragmatically, all rangers would not have either Conjure Barrage nor Conjure Volley.

And even if you see rangers as Half Druids, all rangers having these spells doesn't match that theme.

Thematically in Standard D&D, a ranger would rarely know these spell and then almost never cast them. Only in themed games would a level 9 ranger face enough CR1 or lower monsters to cast Conjure Barrage. And it would almost never be worth the spell slot.

If you are running a LOTR clone then you might have enough CR 1 Orcs in a fight to be worth casting those spells.

But aspects that are not part of the base D&D experience should not be core class or race features.

 

[mellored]

Beasts, violent tribals, wild armies, and giants and giantkin.

Conjure Volley spells work great against wild armies and violent tribals.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I mean the ranger when it was created all the way onto 2e, had a clear theme.

Rangers were trackers and hunters who fight the dangerous elements of the wilderness. It was based on the concept of Aragorn who had skills to better track, survive, and hunt the monsters of the wild. Beasts, violent tribals, wild armies, and giants and giantkin.

Since D&D lacked a deep skill system, many of Aragorn and other iconic ranger type's skills were made into spells.

The 5e have copied those spells but forgotten what those spells where for. Because they've forgotten the theme.

Rangers are hunters, trackers, and survivalists of a fantasy world. Therefore if they have magic it would be pragmatic. And pragmatically, all rangers would not have either Conjure Barrage nor Conjure Volley.

And even if you see rangers as Half Druids, all rangers having these spells doesn't match that theme.

Thematically in Standard D&D, a ranger would rarely know these spell and then almost never cast them. Only in themed games would a level 9 ranger face enough CR1 or lower monsters to cast Conjure Barrage. And it would almost never be worth the spell slot.

If you are running a LOTR clone then you might have enough CR 1 Orcs in a fight to be worth casting those spells.

But aspects that are not part of the base D&D experience should not be core class or race features.

None of this answers my question, but fine.

Idk what game you’re used to that doesn’t feature groups of low CR enemies, but…it’s a core part of the base D&D experience. Like the ranger can ambush a patrol.

They’re very Ranger spells.

 

[mellored]

Besides being an evoker...

What other massive area, ally friendly spells are there?

 

[Minigiant]

Conjure Volley spells work great against wild armies and violent tribals.

None of this answers my question, but fine.

Idk what game you’re used to that doesn’t feature groups of low CR enemies, but…it’s a core part of the base D&D experience. Like the ranger can ambush a patrol.

They’re very Ranger spells.

Not at level 17.

And at level9, Cnnjure Barrage is too expensive a spell slot for swarms of mooks.

That's the 2014 hunter's multiattack wasn't terrible. They were niche in use but free.

So in the rare case a DM sicced 30 1-2HD humanoids on the party, the Ranger could slaughter them.
It's the favored enemy problem, it is an ability the DM would have to purpusely throw at you to use.

How many times has a DM gave you an encounter of 20+ 1HD humanoids after level 8 when your mage did not open with "I cast fireball" in the 10 years of 5e?

 

[mellored]

So in the rare case a DM sicced 30 1-2HD humanoids on the party, the Ranger could slaughter them.

Or severely damaged a lot of CR 4 creatures.

Certainly do more damage with the spell than if he just shot arrows at them one by one.

 

[Minigiant]

Or severely damaged a lot of CR 4 creatures.

Certainly do more damage with the spell than if he just shot arrows at them one by one.

CR4 monsters have HP 60-100. If you are softening up multiple 75 HP enemies equally instead of taking them out one by one, you tactics is likely bad or your DM set the encounter for the spell to be good. ~23 damage isn't

The issue is it isn't normal worth your top level spell slot as a ranger.
Especially with the new changes to Hunter's Mark. One of your 3rd level slots are likely holding up a 8hr HM since the designers are now building the whole class around Hunter's Mark.

That's irony. The 2014 Ranger had a weaker Conjure Barrage but few good 3rd level combat spells. So knowing CB was no harm no foul for niche usage.

But the current playtest encourages you to not only spam HM but also upcast it. So CB competes with HM for slots.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not at level 17.

And at level9, Cnnjure Barrage is too expensive a spell slot for swarms of mooks.

That's the 2014 hunter's multiattack wasn't terrible. They were niche in use but free.

So in the rare case a DM sicced 30 1-2HD humanoids on the party, the Ranger could slaughter them.
It's the favored enemy problem, it is an ability the DM would have to purpusely throw at you to use.

How many times has a DM gave you an encounter of 20+ 1HD humanoids after level 8 when your mage did not open with "I cast fireball" in the 10 years of 5e?

That is far from the expected use case, or what everyone else is talking about.

Or severely damaged a lot of CR 4 creatures.

Certainly do more damage with the spell than if he just shot arrows at them one by one.

Yep.

So CB competes with HM for slots.

Not in a horde fight.

And setting up a bunch of easy kills where the monk or fighter can take out a critter per hit, or another caster can take out most of the board with another AoE, is good tactics. The round ends with fewer enemies on the board than if you’d taken one out with two attacks and Hunter’s Mark.

 

[Kurotowa]

The spells kill creatures.

They don't kill monsters ie things rangers iconically were trained to kill.
Rangers were originally killers of giant-class monsters.
Neither spell is puts a dent on the weakest true giant 105hp hill giant. Nor stop the 59hp giant kin ogre.
Both spells are people killers and small vermin extinguishers. Killers of minor 1-3 HD humaniods and beasts.

Rangers don't need spells to kill giants. They have weapon attacks for that. Martial PCs are already the champions of single target damage. It's the thing they're already good at, and they don't need special abilities to make them even better at it. A backup spell for those uncommon cases where the DM does decide to throw a horde of minions at you? That's a useful thing to have.

I mean, the complaint I see so often is that weapon uses are only good at one thing, and it'd be great if they could contribute in a broader range of situations. Well, here it is. It's a decent AoE attack for Rangers. That's good to have, and I'm not going to complain about it.

 

[Stalker0]

The 5e have copied those spells but forgotten what those spells where for. Because they've forgotten the theme.

Rangers are hunters, trackers, and survivalists of a fantasy world. Therefore if they have magic it would be pragmatic. And pragmatically, all rangers would not have either Conjure Barrage nor Conjure Volley.

Yeah but the ranger's history in dnd is a bit more complicated then that.

We have had the Dritz influence with TWF and lots and lots of attacks at higher levels.

We have had rangers that get the "whirlwind attack" and "volley of arrows" type abilities in previous editions. These spells are just replicating that part of the history.

Now are the spells doing a good job of it.....meh, but I can understand why they are there.