D&D (2024) UA Ranger (Playtest 6)

[Minigiant]

That is far from the expected use case, or what everyone else is talking about.

What is it's expected use?

Conjure Barrage spends a 3rd level slot for ~23 damage when you only get 2 slots and a max of 3 slots.
Conjure Valley spends a 5th level slot for ~36 damage when you only get 2 slots and a max of 3 slots.

They aren't terrible but are niche. My opinion is that very niche aspects of the game shouldn't be core nonribbon class features.
The community agreed as they could not stop complaining about Favored Enemy.

Not if AOE Damage is an iconic aspect of the Ranger in 2024, then it should deal way more damage or cost a lot less.

As is both spell competes with heavily encouraged upcasted Hunter's Mark.

 

[Minigiant]

Rangers don't need spells to kill giants. They have weapon attacks for that. Martial PCs are already the champions of single target damage. It's the thing they're already good at, and they don't need special abilities to make them even better at it. A backup spell for those uncommon cases where the DM does decide to throw a horde of minions at you? That's a useful thing to have.

I mean, the complaint I see so often is that weapon uses are only good at one thing, and it'd be great if they could contribute in a broader range of situations. Well, here it is. It's a decent AoE attack for Rangers. That's good to have, and I'm not going to complain about it.

My argument is is an expensive weak AOE attack backup spell isn't worth that much more than the "dead levels" they are filling and aren't iconic enough to be forced on every single ranger.

It's bad enough they are forcing Hunter's Mark on every ranger but not a single animal or plant spell.

 

[mellored]

What is it's expected use?

Conjure Barrage spends a 3rd level slot for ~23 damage when you only get 2 slots and a max of 3 slots.

23 damage * 10 monsters = 230 damage.
that's worth a slot.

Probably wouldn't use it if you can't hit at least 5 though. But that shouldn't be difficult with the size.

My opinion is that very niche aspects of the game shouldn't be core nonribbon class features.

It is a ribbon feature. One extra known spell, probably because they didn't want to give it to the Druid and couldn't think of what else to do with it.

The core feature is new spell level slots. (See paladin 17, for comparison).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What is it's expected use?

Half dozen or so small enemies. Not 20.

Conjure Barrage spends a 3rd level slot for ~23 damage when you only get 2 slots and a max of 3 slots.

Okay.

Conjure Valley spends a 5th level slot for ~36 damage when you only get 2 slots and a max of 3 slots.

Okay.

Neither statements describe a problem.

They aren't terrible but are niche. My opinion is that very niche aspects of the game shouldn't be core nonribbon class features.
The community agreed as they could not stop complaining about Favored Enemy.

False. The “community” isn’t represented by forums. If the community had rejected hunters mark, the ranger wouldn’t still be using it.

Not if AOE Damage is an iconic aspect of the Ranger in 2024, then it should deal way more damage or cost a lot less.

As is both spell competes with heavily encouraged upcasted Hunter's Mark.

Things with different uses compete for resources in a class? Oh no?

 

[Emberashh]

Since D&D lacked a deep skill system, many of Aragorn and other iconic ranger type's skills were made into spells.

The 5e have copied those spells but forgotten what those spells where for. Because they've forgotten the theme.

The issue with the Ranger historically is that the OG design for it was a kitbash of whatever game mechanics existed that could deliver the sorts of things Aragorn could be said to do.

Rangers weren't made spellcasters because thats part of the fantasy (Aragorn is not magic, and what you could point that thats "may be" magic comes from his race/background, not his Class) but because the game was just shallow in the areas Rangers needed.

But the problem is by just sticking with spellcasting they inadvertently created a whole new trope that sucks up all the air in the room when it comes to Ranger design; you suggest Rangers shouldn't be spellcasters and theres a dozen people coming out of the woodwork to just say that makes them a Fighter.

Ranger has a core identity from literature, but DND has never been primed to deliver on it, and neither Gygax, TSR, or WOTC have ever really sat down and tried to deliver a bespoke mechanical identity for the Ranger that isn't just a refined form of kitbashing.

WOTC ironically got very close with 5e's Natural Explorer, but of course WOTC being WOTC refuse to this day to iterate on the design and have since effectively scrapped it entirely.

Ive talked about it before, but it was learning that history that drove me to design my own Ranger in the way that I did, resulting in a specific fantasy of AOE Martialing, Martial Healing, and (newly as Ive had even better ideas) the wielding of mundane nature as a weapon and shield unto themselves.

A level 5 Ranger can disperse the parties trail and lead their foes astray, and in need engage them all to keep the party safe. They can heal wounds and forge new paths through the wild.

A level 30 Ranger throws a pebble into the woods and 20 stampeding Dragons come barreling out of the trees while the Ranger engages the 9 Legions of Hellspawn by themselves. Master Healers and an uncanny skill in the wilderness lets them wield even the most hostile environments as a cloak against evil or a blade to smite it.

Thats what Rangers should look like imo, and its what mine will when the time comes to sit and work through it properly. No silly incantations or wand waving in this class.

 

[Horwath]

Simple solution to this Conjure Barrage/Volley could be:

If you do not like the default spell, you can take another primal spell known of the same level or lower.

Or take expertise in one of your skills.

 

[Minigiant]

False. The “community” isn’t represented by forums. If the community had rejected hunters mark, the ranger wouldn’t still be using it.

False.

2014 Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer were some of the most complained about features.

Rather than fixing them, WOTC changed them and changed the whole Ranger's flavor, lore, and style of fighting.

Things with different uses compete for resources in a class? Oh no?

They both use 3rd level spell slots. Something you have little of.

 

[mellored]

Simple solution to this Conjure Barrage/Volley could be:

If you do not like the default spell, you can take another primal spell known of the same level or lower.

You already get 2 more known spells at those levels.

Which is more than you get at any other level except 1.

 

[Horwath]

You already get 2 more known spells at those levels.

Which is more than you get at any other level except 1.

So what?

If they added that, there is enough room in class resource pool for it.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

The problem I see with the conjure vollerage spells is that their use case - clearing away mooks, is something several other classes are already experts at, so in most parties the ranger will almost never have a good reason to spend their limited higher-level slots on them.

They're not bad spells per se and they should stay as options on the Primal spell list for parties that otherwise lack AoE damage, but having not one but two built-in class features that you don't want to use is just frustrating.