D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[Stalker0]

So the houserule I have used for my monk:

• Patient Defense is now a reaction.

Its actually a huge improvement. It no longer hinders your bonus action economy, and you use it when you need it. The monk no longer has to "guess" that they are going to get attacked and spend their precious ki, they can wait until the attack comes and then add in the defense. Makes a really big difference to their durability.

I use to be in the camp that thoughts monks needed BIG CHANGES. But the more I have playtested my own houserules, I have found less is more. The monk needs some changes, but its surprising what a few core tweaks can really do to solve the problem.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So the houserule I have used for my monk:

• Patient Defense is now a reaction.

It is also quite multiclass resistant, because it competes with shield reaction, so most casters won't make good use of it.

Also, if you are attacked, chances are that the other one does not want to run away from you, so you don't need your unarmed strike opportunity attack for a grab.

 

[mellored]

So the houserule I have used for my monk:

• Patient Defense is now a reaction.

Is that just after a hit is known?
Or before the roll?

 

[Chaosmancer]

So the houserule I have used for my monk:

• Patient Defense is now a reaction.

Its actually a huge improvement. It no longer hinders your bonus action economy, and you use it when you need it. The monk no longer has to "guess" that they are going to get attacked and spend their precious ki, they can wait until the attack comes and then add in the defense. Makes a really big difference to their durability.

I use to be in the camp that thoughts monks needed BIG CHANGES. But the more I have playtested my own houserules, I have found less is more. The monk needs some changes, but its surprising what a few core tweaks can really do to solve the problem.

I did that alongside other ki ability improvements at 10th level.

Have you found it is fine at low levels? I was worried it might be a bit too much for 3rd or 4th.

 

[Clint_L]

So taking into account all these suggestions, what about if they get this at Level 2 (changes in italics):

2ND LEVEL: MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level plus your wisdom ability score modifier determine the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.

You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points.

Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC equals 8 plus your Proficiency Bonus plus your Wisdom modifier.

Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two bonus Unarmed Strikes instead of the usual one.

Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a reaction.

Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.

There - did we fix it? Just a few words changed, but now the three initial martial discipline options are neatly split between action, reaction, and bonus action, and monks have a few extra di points to work with. It feels intuitive, and gives them a bit of a boost without seeming overpowered, at first glance. I think this is the version I am going to playtest.

 

[Clint_L]

I think I love it. Going way back to my early example of an encounter with a group of goblins at level 2, this lets the monk spot the goblin shaman at the back, use step of the wind to run/leap and get him, unleash 3-4 attacks to hopefully take him out, and then dodge to survive the onslaught of the goblins who come rushing back to support/avenge the shaman. On their next turn, the monk can use their last di point to get the hell out of there, job done. For the rest of the fight they are out of di and so more of a supporting player, but they got their moment of glory and fulfilled a unique niche.

 

[mellored]

Have you found it is fine at low levels? I was worried it might be a bit too much for 3rd or 4th.

They are still ki limited at lower levels.

I'm more worried about it being overpowered at high levels.
20 AC, constantly disadvantage to be hit, and proficiency in all saves? Might be a bit much.

 

[mellored]

So taking into account all these suggestions, what about if they get this at Level 2 (changes in italics):

I still think they need to move something to level 1.

As is. All their level 1 features are basically light armor, two short swords, and two weapon fighting.

 

[OB1]

So taking into account all these suggestions, what about if they get this at Level 2 (changes in italics):

2ND LEVEL: MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level plus your wisdom ability score modifier determine the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.

You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points.

Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC equals 8 plus your Proficiency Bonus plus your Wisdom modifier.

Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two bonus Unarmed Strikes instead of the usual one.

Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a reaction.

Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.

There - did we fix it? Just a few words changed, but now the three initial martial discipline options are neatly split between action, reaction, and bonus action, and monks have a few extra di points to work with. It feels intuitive, and gives them a bit of a boost without seeming overpowered, at first glance. I think this is the version I am going to playtest.

I like this a lot! I think the two bonus Unarmed Strikes off of the attack action may be too much. You can now get 3/4 attacks, SotW and PD all in a single round for 3 ki. I'd suggest keeping one of the extra Unarmed strikes as a bonus action (unless I'm reading this wrong and your saying FoB still takes a bonus action).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They are still ki limited at lower levels.

I'm more worried about it being overpowered at high levels.
20 AC, constantly disadvantage to be hit, and proficiency in all saves? Might be a bit much.

Hmmh. I don't think so. There are enough abilities to negate disadvantage.
Also, you give up the ability to grab the enemy as a reaction and so on. (Of course, the issue of having to use str as the esacpe dc ability still hurts*.)

*Which is why I'd like to have another line in martial discipline:

You also use your Monk ability DC (8+wis+prof bonus) for unarmed strike DCs and escape DCs.