D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[Valetudo]

Basically the light clerics warding flare.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Deflect Missiles is against 1 attack.

Idk what you are responding to. I posited replacing patient defense with deflect attacks. What’s that got to do with the difference between patient defense and shield?

Your deflect attacks was a change to a proposal to give the monk the ability to use Patient Defence as a reaction for 1 discipline point.

For Patient Defense, I like changing it to a reaction, but remember reactions need a trigger to be used, and timing ought to be figured out. So, I'd guess the intent that you can react to being attacked. So it'd be:

Patient Defense: When you are targeted by a (melee?) attack, you can spend one Discipline Point as a reaction to take the Dodge action.

IMO…at that point why not just make deflect missiles into deflect attacks?

I do not see "Deflect Attacks" as a good substitution for a reaction based Patient defence ( at the cost of a reaction and a discipline point).
Though, now that I think about it a "Deflect Attacks" at just the cost of a reaction is pretty good also. Why not both.
The claim is being made (which I largely agree with) is that the Monk could do with more options.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Your deflect attacks was a change to a proposal to give the monk the ability to use Patient Defence as a reaction for 1 discipline point.

I do not see "Deflect Attacks" as a good substitution for a reaction based Patient defence ( at the cost of a reaction and a discipline point).
Though, now that I think about it a "Deflect Attacks" at just the cost of a reaction is pretty good also. Why not both.
The claim is being made (which I largely agree with) is that the Monk could do with more options.

My rewrite gives at-will usage of some kind to nearly all base class “ki” features in the phb. So, patient defense has no focus cost and still uses a BA, and im considering having it give DR rather than imposing disadvantage. That way, it also makes deflect attacks work more reliably, and ties the two together.

 

[kapars]

My playtest campaign that started with Dragons of Stormwreck Isle and the first playtest packet is still running, and since it features a Monk I'll provide some feedback here on what stood out to me over the levels as the changes started coming in:

Level 1: Background Feats allowed the Monk player to pick Tough (on a Dragonborn), and it has made a difference. There are a few encounters where they've been a few points shy of going down. This has allowed the Monk to act as a "Tank" of sorts in a party consisting of Monk, Druid, Cleric, and Rogue, but I think it also indicates that the extra hitpoints have been a requirement in order for it to act in this role. (The Monk is being played by a 5-year-old that doesn't understand all the kiting that's been mentioned in this thread)
Level 2: This was where flurry of blows started being used and it was notable that this ran out almost immediately in the Cave chapter. This is also where a father's love for daughter starts kicking in and I let step of the wind do may more than it should out of combat.
Somewhere in this range the light weapon property changes to work as part of the attack action and between a shortsword, nun-chuck, and kicking the Monk is putting out damage that makes the other players notice at this level even while still using d4's for unarmed strikes.
Level 3: Open Hand Monk was selected and I think around this time the Dragonborn gets revised. Not a huge difference as we were using the one from Fizzban's. The character is doing well in terms of damage output but it is level 2 spells that are often making the difference in the important combats.

Mid-level 3 I start applying the first of my homebrew fixes for the Monk as they are awarded a Dragonhide belt (restore ki as action). The class was taking forever to reach UA and I was trying to prevent the typical problems as I've been running the game in a depth crawl style for dungeons that could lead to multiple encounters before short rest.

Later in level 3, we have weapon masteries introduced and the player puts their shortsword and nunchucks (club) to use. This has to change when the light weapon property changes back to bonus action when the "Nick" property is introduced. This was the first point that a bit of disappointment was felt in the direction of things (on my part), the player was either just swinging the nunchuks or shortsword at random and I was dutifully applying Vex or Slow. These were fun though rarely consequential.

Level 4: We've just reached this level. I know it seems slow but play sessions with children rarely reach an hour and leveling slowed once they passed the starter box materials. UA6 comes out and I had to break the news to the player that they can no longer use their shortsword and the Mage Slayer feat that they had chosen at level is no longer available. This didn't go over well, punching slightly harder doesn't matter much to a player whose cool-sounding Feat needs to be retconned. An effect of the playtest process of course but it does feel strange since this a regression from the 2014 version.

From a personal perspective it is also odd that they wouldn't get access to Charger without jumping through hoops as running up and delivering a flying kick is a very Monk thing. This becomes stranger considering that if the player picked Giff or Eladrin they wouldn't be affected by losing access to all these feats. This gives a very tiered experience to playing the class and I guess my biggest take-away from the playtest packet and yes I do understand that changes should be expected when play-testing.

The other big takeaway is the rather odd changes to the Open Hand Monk (CON save to prevent reaction) paired with the surprising improvements to the Four Elements Monk, I'm thinking that I might pivot the player to embracing their Draconic nature and playtest the new Four Elements Monk instead. I'm also letting keep the short sword.

 

[mellored]

Level 11
Improved flurry of blows. (Storm of blows?)
When you use flurry of blows, you can spend up to 2 ki, making one additional attacks per ki spent.

Level 17
Perfect flurry of blows
When you use flurry of blows, you can now spend up to 3 ki.

 

[Stalker0]

That is not a barbarian ability. That is a specific subclass. And a very limited resource.

At the levels we are talking about that is like 5 10 minute uses a day. Not that limited.

But sure it was just one example. i mean we could pick the berserker who gets +4d6 - +6d6 extra damage on each attack at those levels.

When we look at that, then you need to factor in constant advantage on attacks and disadvantage for attacks against you, because you are surrounded by magical darkness way more often than the barbarian can keep that rage up.

so what your saying..... making other people have disadvantage on all their attacks against you is a perfectly fine ability for high levels, as we already have a subclass that can do it.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

My rewrite gives at-will usage of some kind to nearly all base class “ki” features in the phb. So, patient defense has no focus cost and still uses a BA, and im considering having it give DR rather than imposing disadvantage. That way, it also makes deflect attacks work more reliably, and ties the two together.

Interesting to you have a link to the rewrite and have you tested it?

 

[mellored]

so what your saying..... making other people have disadvantage on all their attacks against you is a perfectly fine ability for high levels, as we already have a subclass that can do it.

There is also a level 9 spell that does it.

 

[Stalker0]

There is also a level 9 spell that does it.

Though to be fair the 9th level spell (Foresight in this case) does a LOT more than just that. And its last 8 hours.

 

[nevin]

I think they indirectly fixed the main monk issue.

Mainly, druids, paladins, and clerics have a reason to short rest. Fighters will want their actions surge as well.

So they will get their ki back. (And warlocks will get spells back too).

or intensified it if you think the concept of short rest/long rest hurt the game all along.