D&D (2024) UA Ranger (Playtest 6)

[Pauln6]

Yeah I think my default preference for rangers would be martial abilities for damage and spells for utility, enhancement, summoning Beasts, on environmental control.

A spell that conjures arrows has always felt weird. I'd prefer it if it was refluffed as a martial ability using existing arrows personally.

 

[mellored]

1. Conjure Barrage should deal about the same damage as 5th level cone spell. Cone Of Cold deal 8d8. Conjure Barrage should deal slightly less.
2. Lighting Arrow should deal about the same as CoC.
3. Conjure Volley should deal about the same damage as a 8th level or 9th level spell.
4. Ranger should have more animal and plant based spells. Especially exclusive ones. Like summoning a pack of hounds to sniff tracks or instantly crafting magic weapons out of wood and vine.

Rangers are not full casters. And they shouldn't get full caster spells.

Paladins don't get meteor smite.

As is, CV and CB are ribbons.

As for all the animal stuff. They get the primal spell list. It's all on there.

Though wolf scout does sound like a cool spell.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Paladins don't get meteor smite.

Okay, but hear me out. Paladins need a spell called "Meteor Smite"

 

[Minigiant]

Rangers are not full casters. And they shouldn't get full caster spells.

Paladins don't get meteor smite.

As is, CV and CB are ribbons.

As for all the animal stuff. They get the primal spell list. It's all on there.

Though wolf scout does sound like a cool spell.

But wasn't that the problem?

Ranger has weak spells AND weak class features as a half casters. Both halves are weak and only intermix well via a few spells.

Paladin only escapes this fate via the power of Smites and Aura of Protection.

Either Rangers have to get better class features which Wizards of the Coast doesn't know how to design or Rangers have to get better spells which Wizard of the Coast does know how to design but won't give the class?

Because the same thing is happening as in 2013. Panger power and utility is going under the radar as other classes get massive buffs.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Does that mean that everything over level 9 should be allowed to be unbalanced?

Well, let's start with that.
Why do you think it's unbalanced?

At level 10, you can have at most 2/15 prepared spells from outside of your starting list.
At level 15, you can have at most 10/18 prepared spells from outside of your starting list.
At level 20, you can have, if I have this right, 19/22.

Why is that unbalanced? What is the abuse that this rule introduces?

Can you please show me the totally busted abuse that you foresee this rule causing?

 

[Minigiant]

Well, let's start with that.
Why do you think it's unbalanced?

At level 10, you can have at most 2/15 prepared spells from outside of your starting list.
At level 15, you can have at most 10/18 prepared spells from outside of your starting list.
At level 20, you can have, if I have this right, 19/22.

Why is that unbalanced? What is the abuse that this rule introduces?

Can you please show me the totally busted abuse that you foresee this rule causing?

I think you are confused about What I am saying.

In the new UA,

At level 9, the UA Ranger learn Conjure Barrage.
At level 10, the UA Bards "spelllistnowincludestheArcane,Divine, andPrimalspelllists"

That's a big difference in power. And this with a Bard who is a full caster who has 2 subclasses with Extra attack and better armor.

THe "it's just a revision" or "few play at level 10" lose meaning of WOTC is willing to give Bards access to 95% of spells.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I'm not confused about what you're saying.

At level 10, the Bard can take 1 new spell, and, for the first time, it can come from any list. The bard can also swap out one of the spells already on their prepared list. So that's at most 2 of the 15 prepared spells. It's not a free choice to draw from all three lists.

And so I invite you again please to show how this is imbalanced.

If the point of your comparison is only to say Conjure Barrage could be stronger -- sure. You don't need to misrepresent the Bard's ability to make that point.

 

[mellored]

only intermix well via a few spells.

This is the core problem, IMO.

So a better fix than more AoE damage would be something like..
Conjure Barrage gets to apply your weapon mastery.

 

[Ashrym]

I think you are confused about What I am saying.

In the new UA,

At level 9, the UA Ranger learn Conjure Barrage.
At level 10, the UA Bards "spelllistnowincludestheArcane,Divine, andPrimalspelllists"

That's a big difference in power. And this with a Bard who is a full caster who has 2 subclasses with Extra attack and better armor.

THe "it's just a revision" or "few play at level 10" lose meaning of WOTC is willing to give Bards access to 95% of spells.

I saw what you posted here and Kobold Stew beat me to it, but I'll add a bit.

The "95% of spells" is a schrodinger's bard argument. Within the design space it's a huge list and I think the choice of many spells is better than an exclusive spell. Within the game play space it's just the spell selected and the ranger's ability to swap one spell on a long rest is far superior to the bard's ability to swap a spell while leveling up. Long rests effectively give the rangers better spell access after the bard has made that choice.

That 10th level ranger has 9 primal spells prepared, and hunter's mark and conjure volley for free. 11 spells prepared. The bard only has 15 spells prepared, 1 of them can be selected from other lists, and one can be sidegraded from another list by giving up a spell already prepped. Even a bard focused on the primal list in the first place won't be able to access all the spells from the primal list the ranger can just by resting.

Compare that to the druid, who can have 15 spells like the bard but swap all of them on a rest, gets find familiar and commune with nature for free (so 17 prepped), has the potent cantrip option (plus more cantrip), and can add a slot by trading in a wildshape use that recovers on a short rest anyway.

How many spell options there are available while leveling up is not nearly as important as access to those spells after having leveling up and in game play.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm not confused about what you're saying.

At level 10, the Bard can take 1 new spell, and, for the first time, it can come from any list. The bard can also swap out one of the spells already on their prepared list. So that's at most 2 of the 15 prepared spells. It's not a free choice to draw from all three lists.

And so I invite you again please to show how this is imbalanced.

If the point of your comparison is only to say Conjure Barrage could be stronger -- sure. You don't need to misrepresent the Bard's ability to make that point.

I saw what you posted here and Kobold Stew beat me to it, but I'll add a bit.

The "95% of spells" is a schrodinger's bard argument. Within the design space it's a huge list and I think the choice of many spells is better than an exclusive spell. Within the game play space it's just the spell selected and the ranger's ability to swap one spell on a long rest is far superior to the bard's ability to swap a spell while leveling up. Long rests effectively give the rangers better spell access after the bard has made that choice.

That 10th level ranger has 9 primal spells prepared, and hunter's mark and conjure volley for free. 11 spells prepared. The bard only has 15 spells prepared, 1 of them can be selected from other lists, and one can be sidegraded from another list by giving up a spell already prepped. Even a bard focused on the primal list in the first place won't be able to access all the spells from the primal list the ranger can just by resting.

Compare that to the druid, who can have 15 spells like the bard but swap all of them on a rest, gets find familiar and commune with nature for free (so 17 prepped), has the potent cantrip option (plus more cantrip), and can add a slot by trading in a wildshape use that recovers on a short rest anyway.

How many spell options there are available while leveling up is not nearly as important as access to those spells after having leveling up and in game play.

The Bard's 2 spells gained from any spell list is more impactful than the Ranger's fixed bonus bonus spell known of Conjure Barrage.

In addition, the ability to learn a spell from any list scales a lot better than the Ranger's fixed CB known.

Aaaaand....

CB eats into the slots used for ranger scaling. Basically CD complete with Hunter's Mark for a small bonus. Whereas the Bard can start to tap into a whole new combat role.


Same with what a Ranger actually gets at level 10, Tireless

1. 1d6+Wis THP Wis/day is weeeeak at level 10.
2. Decarease Exhaustion lose its punch if we use the old exhaustion rules than no one uses.

That's all before you realize
Conjure Animals is stronger use of your 3rd level slot than both Hunter's Mark and Conjure Barrage. And Tireless.