D&D (2024) What type of ranger would your prefer for 2024?

[le Redoutable]

I think the Rangers and the Hunter don't use ( sorry again ) the same honor code :
Merchant for Rangers
Thieves for Hunters

 

[Incenjucar]

Rangers need to not require magic simply because WotC is too design-shy to add a new class that can fill the skilled martial wilderness skirmisher role.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I’m beginning to think you want a magic ranger, you just don’t want it to be called spells.

it's not an unfair thing to want though is it? by the fact that spells-and-slots are this huge all encompasing beast of a mechanic that too many things get forced to fit into because it's easier than making unique systems and abilities.

 

[Reef]

it's not an unfair thing to want though is it? by the fact that spells-and-slots are this huge all encompasing beast of a mechanic that too many things get forced to fit into because it's easier than making unique systems and abilities.

Well, that’s sort of a different argument, then. And would definitely need some careful balancing. Take the list of example abilities @Emberashh posted on the first page. Many of those have direct spell analogues. They seem to want a Ranger who can cast Animal Friendship at will, for example, they just don’t want it to be a spell. But how is that balanced with Druids who are limited in how many times they can cast it?

Personally, I don’t see a big enough difference between “uses Primal magic to cast wilderness spells” and “uses Primal magic to use spell-like abilities (that are totally spells, but not)”. Not enough to strip the spell list from a class that has always has it. Not when the highly-skilled (non-magic) woodsman niche can already be serviced.

 

[Vaalingrade]

They seem to want a Ranger who can cast Animal Friendship at will, for example, they just don’t want it to be a spell. But how is that balanced with Druids who are limited in how many times they can cast it?

Delete Vancian Casting too and thus get rid of daily magic uses?

If we're making improvements, let's make big improvements.

 

[Reef]

Delete Vancian Casting too and thus get rid of daily magic uses?

If we're making improvements, let's make big improvements.

Well, I was sort of looking for options other than “bin the whole game and start from scratch”

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well, I was sort of looking for options other than “bin the whole game and start from scratch”

Vancian Magic isn't the whole game. It's just a tumor growing on its brain.

 

[Emberashh]

i don't think the highest conceptual-level ranger premise requires magic, but it does significantly encapsulate a 'survivalist' concept, and a major part of the survivalist is taking and picking up any and all potentially usefull skills because one day knowing how to make medical grade alchohol/disinfectant out of tree bark might save your life.

So when you insert that survivalist mindset into DnD worlds magic is absolutely something i feel like they would pick up because it's such a flexible and useful tool and primal magic is just the next thematic step to knowing everything about the ecosystem that they exist in, drawing on the energies of the natural world around them rather than the physical plants and creatures

the ranger is an explorer, a survivor and a hunter of the wild, they thrive not through brute strength but through knowledge, knowing how to pick their fights and the best ways to fight, knowing as many solutions as they can because if one doesn't work then they've got three backups, knowing their enemy and their weaknesses and how to take advantage of those, knowing how to take care of themselves.

The issue is though is that that implies magic is merely a learned skill rather than a specific thing only the few are capable of.

And thats before you get into how much more interesting being able to survive in a potentially magical wilderness is if you're not magical yourself.

In Jumanji, Alan Parish isn't interesting because he just used jungle magic to survive for 30 years in the game.

Hes interesting because he was just a regular, sheltered rich kid who managed to survive and become Robin Williams the Wildman after 30 years, no magic required.

How is that not magical?

That was already explained.

You’re the one who seems to have such a narrow definition what a ranger is.

You have that backwards.

The D&D ranger has always been magica

Because the mechanics didn't exist otherwise. The original codified Ranger was a kitbashed homebrew made official with zero attempt to give it its own mechanics.

The terrain mechanics in 5e were the closest DND has ever gotten to actually doing this.

I feel like it’s like you keep pointing out all these examples of great swordsmen from fiction (Zorro, D’Artagnan, etc), and complaining that there isn’t a Duelist class. Where I’m sitting here wondering how that isn’t just a Dex Battlemaster or a Rogue Swashbuckler. I don’t hate duelists, I just think that niche is already well served.

Those characters are, in fact, actually encompassed by the Rogue archtype, so no its not an equivalent situation.

Beastmasters and Monster Hunters are literally unique literary tropes completely independent of Rangers. Your Van Helsings and Dars have nothing to do with Aragorn, Robin Hood, Will Treaty, etc.

And the Monster Hunter incidentally is the only archtype among these that has a literary precedence to be a spellcaster. Beastmasters should actually be psionicists if anything, and obviously the Rangers are still martials.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Delete Vancian Casting too and thus get rid of daily magic uses?

If we're making improvements, let's make big improvements.

If you want to go through all these grandiose efforts to change baseline Dungeons & Dragons, why are you even bothering to play Dungeons & Dragons in the first place?

 

[Emberashh]

Personally, I don’t see a big enough difference between “uses Primal magic to cast wilderness spells” and “uses Primal magic to use spell-like abilities (that are totally spells, but not)”.

Because you're forcing the need for magic to explain these abilities when you've been given the actual explanation; uncanny skill.