Unpopular opinions go here

[Celebrim]

Combat is the least interesting part of D&D.

Last night, we had a four-hour gaming session without a single combat scene. Not even a random encounter. It was easily one of the best gaming sessions we've ever had as a group, and we've been playing for more than a decade.

I mean "Yes", but also "No".

Some of the best sessions of D&D I've ever had had no combat. You just live in the story.

But what makes every great session of D&D great is that you have great stakes.

And sometimes that doesn't involve combat, but sometimes it does.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't. I consider D&D to be an adolescent power fantasy and it's one of the reasons I love it so much.


And it could also enhance role playing. Imagine doing something in character even though you personally think it's a bad idea.

Codes of honor exist in all kinds of societies, including our own, so I think having something that touches on that for the setting is fine. The issue it is often handled cartoonishly in a lot of settings. And usually people are shooting more for myth, legend, and cinematic codes of honor than historically realistic ones (you can use the latter too and have fine playing around with the nuances, but I suspect most people are after something more like a cinematic experience of it related to genre-----and there is nothing wrong with genre and adhering to it). But just to take an example, if you were to game the Sopranos, there is a code of honor there (which admittedly isn't always consistently followed, and sometimes the show plays with the hypocrisy of the code, but you can implement those kinds of specifics which is based partly on real the real mafia but also the the cinematic lore).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That's because reputation building typically involved a grind where you complete daily missions that got real old, real fast. I started grinding for some faction in Shadowlands and decided I'd finally had enough. I haven't played Wow since January of 2020.

They actually have moved away from traditional rep grinds. Most in Dragonflight are Shadowlands-style renown bars. There are still a few regular rep grinds, but they're either meaningless at this point or go lightning fast in others. There's only one painful old school one in Dragonflight (technically, it's refilling an arcane well of energy, not a rep grind), which feels very much like it slipped through the cracks.

 

[MGibster]

But just to take an example, if you were to game the Sopranos, there is a code of honor there (which admittedly isn't always consistently followed, and sometimes the show plays with the hypocrisy of the code, but you can implement those kinds of specifics which is based partly on real the real mafia but also the the cinematic lore).

Sure. I was running a Trail of Cthulhu campaign and a PC police detective was trying to get information from a mid-level mafia boss and threatened to arrest him if he did not comply. I had a little heart-to-heart with the player, explaining that such a threat might work for on low level criminal or someone whose arrest would be scandalous, but this guy follows the code of Omertá (wiki link), and as an experienced police detective you know this threat won't work. But then the PC was able to get him to break Omertá using other strategies.

 

[Reynard]

I don't. I consider D&D to be an adolescent power fantasy and it's one of the reasons I love it so much.

I think there is definitely a "power fantasy" element to it, but I don't think it is confined to "adolescent." More to the point, I think it is an evolving fantasy and that's why we can enjoy it over all of these 30 or 40 years.

 

[MGibster]

I think there is definitely a "power fantasy" element to it, but I don't think it is confined to "adolescent." More to the point, I think it is an evolving fantasy and that's why we can enjoy it over all of these 30 or 40 years.

It's evolving, sure. But in D&D the players are powers unto themselves who are typically answerable to nobody else. They are their own bosses, and nobody tells them what to do! In fact, I probably should have described D&D as an adolescent male power fantasy.

Edit: I meant to type D&D characters are powers unto themselves. As a D&D player myself, I certainly answer to powers much more authoratative and mighty than myself. My wife for example.

 

[Autumnal]

Okay, I'll ask it another way: what is the benefit of a mechanical "honor" subsystem in a historical RPG setting?

It’s one of the most important concerns in cultures that people talk about as inspiration for roleplaying: Greece, Rome, Vikings, chivalry, and in up to the modern day. Doesn’t mean exactly the same thing in all those cases, but then neither do alignments. It opens up paths to prominence and notoriety. It provides adventure hooks. It folds in roleplaying without adding a whole lot of detail.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Combat is the least interesting part of D&D.

And always has been, which is why I abandoned it back in the 1E years. Its a grinding attrition which only gets worse the higher the PCs get.

 

[MGibster]

And always has been, which is why I abandoned it back in the 1E years. Its a grinding attrition which only gets worse the higher the PCs get.

That is a valid criticism and might be one of the reasons why campaigns don't typically go much higher than level 10.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It's evolving, sure. But in D&D the players are powers unto themselves who are typically answerable to nobody else. They are their own bosses, and nobody tells them what to do! In fact, I probably should have described D&D as an adolescent male power fantasy.

This is failing of a combat system that makes PCs progressively more immune to ordinary restrictions.

In a setting where a lucky hit from a 0-level NPC has the potential to kill, disable, or at least critically inconvenience any PC, I find the players tend to be better behaved and a lot more logical in their interactions. It also makes reputation a potent tool.

Over the decades, I have come to believe that the deadlier the combat system, the greater the tendency to roleplay, as players are much less inclined to just say 'screw this, roll for initiative'.