D&D General What is player agency to you?

[Oofta]

I take a different approach.

The feature (position of privilege) allows exactly what it says - basically anywhere you happen to be. Stuck in the City of Brass (elemental plane of fire) - you can get an audience with a noble if you really want to. This is a great way to drive the game forward! And it can really lead to fun and interesting things happening.

To me there has to be a logical reason for the background feature to matter. A lord in the City of Brass isn't going to care that my PC from a plane of existence they know nothing about is not going to have any influence. It's a throw-away line at the end of a long description. The description explicitly says to work with the DM to determine how much authority you have.

Backgrounds are not hard rules in my game, the social aspects of the world still need to make sense in context.

 

[TwoSix]

I'm not sure anyone is saying that greater player agency is always better. To some extent it is a tradeoff with other things, for sure. It's about different agendas for play.

On the contrary, I think a lot of the issues are because some posters hear “your game features less player agency” as a pejorative.

 

[mamba]

Point is, if you or @mamba reserve the right to negate the feature - then the player needs to be told that at session 0 (or when otherwise generating the PC). It may well prompt them to pick a different background.

the feature already says that you work with the DM… and no, the feature maybe not working in a specific instance that was not even considered when the campaign started does not mean it now has to work or that the DM let the player down

 

[Mort]

I am not saying that in any of the scenarios they could not still meet you, I am saying that any of these are reasons why they could decide not to grant an audience


no, the DM should choose what makes the most sense given what he knows. If that is no audience, fine. If that is an audience that turns into the red wedding, also fine. If that means just a regular audience, no objections either

Actually no. The specifics of your nobility are supposed to be worked out with the DM, as only makes sense.

The "position of privilege" feature is presented separately, and as rules text. At least on D&D beyond, don't have my physical book with me.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

On the contrary, I think a lot of the issues are because some posters hear “your game features less player agency” as a pejorative.

In the alternative, it's also because some posters use "your game features less player agency" as a pejorative.

 

[Scott Christian]

I was referencing the background feature, specifically. The noble has one, but many other backgrounds do, too.... criminal, folk hero, soldier... many others. They're in my opinion designed to give the players some input on how things go. I'm a noble, I can get an audience with other nobility. The DM still has plenty to say.... maybe it's a noble who doesn't like my character, or is annoyed by the audience, or who uses the audience to leverage his own goals. The same can apply to the other backgrounds.

It's just another point where the player can have some say in what's going on in the game. Taking it away... I mean, that seems self-evident that it's taking away agency.

Yeah, sorry, I am just not on board that it takes away anything from the player - as long as the DM has an in-game reason. Which is why I personally feel DM prep is extremely important.

The sailor background (I think) has a feat that they can get passage on a ship for you and your group. But really, any group? What if they are wanted for murder, does the ship (even if it is one they used to work on) still have to grant them passage? The fact that it gives caveats in the featured section simply tells the DM to try and make it happen. But sometimes, the DM's world, in order to be consistent, needs to follow some common sense.

To me, it just goes back to trusting your DM. If they say no, I assume they have a good reason and never question it as a player (and I have had it happen). It never interrupted my agency.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

covfefe

Mod Note:

We could do without the threadcrapping. Thank you.

 

[Mort]

To me there has to be a logical reason for the background feature to matter. A lord in the City of Brass isn't going to care that my PC from a plane of existence they know nothing about is not going to have any influence. It's a throw-away line at the end of a long description. The description explicitly says to work with the DM to determine how much authority you have.

No it actually isn't. It's presented as it's own specific text, completely separate from the "work with your DM..." stuff (at least in D&D beyond). Like it's meant to be used regardless of the above.

Backgrounds are not hard rules in my game, the social aspects of the world still need to make sense in context.

The DM is the one deciding the context. If they want the feature to work within the context they set up, it can.

 

[Vaalingrade]

We will just have to agree to disagree. If, a player gave me a character background of a noble, and as we played, I, as DM, saw that this was part of their character - and then planned a plot point around it, that is using player agency. If the plot point happened to be a scorned younger brother had usurped the father and mother and banished them, then that brother might absolutely know he is on a hit list, especially from his older brother/sister. And he will do everything to thwart that sibling from reaching him - including trapping the secret passageways and/or sealing them up.

This does not remove player agency at all. It adds to it.

If the player isn't down with this, that's just punishing them for having the background.

How is actively being punished for making a choice 'agency'.

And DON'T say 'consequences'. Because that's not consequences.

 

[mamba]

Actually no. The specifics of your nobility are supposed to be worked out with the DM, as only makes sense.

The "position of privilege" feature is presented separately, and as rules text. At least on D&D beyond, don't have my physical book with me.

I really do not care what the text says, they get an audience when it makes sense to, they might get denied when it does not. This text is not the law, it is a guideline, the setting easily trumps anything in it