D&D General WotC: 'Of Course We're Going To Do' Baldur's Gate 4

“Baldur’s Gate is an incredible game. And of course, we're going to do a successor."
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In an interview with The Game Business, Wizards of the Coast's president John Hight touched on the company's video games plans for Dungeons & Dragons.

Hight told interviewer Christopher Dring “Baldur’s Gate is an incredible game. And of course, we're going to do a successor."

Larian Studios, which made Baldur's Gate 3, has previously indicated that is not going to be involved in any potential sequels.

However, the previously announced game that game studio Giant Skull is currently working on is not Baldur's Gate 4. Hight says "This is not the successor to [Baldur's Gate 3]. We go to Stig and his team to tell an incredible story and bring D&D to a very broad audience. Ideally, the game will appeal to D&D players because it will help them realise their imagination. But it’s also going to hopefully appeal to people that love playing action games, that love the Jedi games, that love God of War games." Giant Skull's game will be a single-player action-adventure game.

Giant Skull's Stig Asmussen spoke a little about that--as yet untitled--game: "A lot of us have grown up on Dungeons & Dragons. And for me, with a new company, this is something that we’re good at. We're good at working with partners. We're good at capturing the spirit of those worlds. It wasn't something that we could just walk away from. It was actually a pretty easy [decision]... Dungeons & Dragons is the definition of a playground. When we had the meeting in Renton [Washington], my mind opened up to the possibilities of what we could do. There’s still a lot of things that we have to abide by. There’s the spirit of Dungeons & Dragons. There are the worlds, player agency and choice, building a party, actions have consequences… those types of things."

Giant Skull was founded by Stig Asmussen in 2023. Asmussen previously was the game director of Star Wars Jedi: Survivor and Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, as well as God of War 3.

 

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I know I'm probably an outlier here but while I enjoyed BG 3, I don't feel any particular draw to play it again. I don't care for the whole "edgy evil is dramatic, good is boring" tone that seems to underly pretty much every character.
I've been unable to run through the entire game a second time. I tried another Dark Urge playthrough, but I stalled in act 3 and just felt like I couldn't be bothered. I'll probably run through it again a few years from now when I've forgotten a lot of the game.
 

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I see that it could go two ways.

A disaster of a game, made in the shadow of better games but a poor representation of what could have been...ala...Dark Alliance.

Or...we see how Exodus turns out. If that is the winner I think it could be, we have that studio or one like it design a BG4. That could be a winner as well.
 


While true, I remember early versions of BG3, every character was abrasive at best.

That doesn't describe BG1 or 2 at all.

Dark, grim dark, is never, was never, the problem. BG3 remains plenty dark.

BG3 is a very character driven game. BG1 and 2 were more story driven. This is part of it what you are seeing. The NPCs are "stars" in BG3, right there along with TAV. With the exception of Imoen, the NPCs were mostly supporting cast in BG1/2. You had a lot more of them too.
 

With the exception of Imoen, the NPCs were mostly supporting cast in BG1/2.
Which is kinda funny because Imoen was really rather underdeveloped and underwritten compared to the rest of the BG2 cast (everyone was underdeveloped in BG1), especially in Shadows of Amn, despite her being central to the plot. She gets somewhat more development in Throne of Bhaal but it's basically a case of too little, too late at that point.

If BG3 had proceeded with its DLC, I'd have been interested if Imoen made a return, given her supposed importance. I feel like Larian could've given her the Clone Wars Maul treatment in the sense of further developing a previously underwritten character and taking her in an interesting direction. If by some miracle we get someone actually good on a BG4, I'd be interested in her return there.
 
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While true, I remember early versions of BG3, every character was abrasive at best.

That doesn't describe BG1 or 2 at all.
I mean, it kind of does actually, just in a different way.

In BG1/2 the abrasiveness doesn't usually come out in talking to the PC, it comes out in the barks and inter-NPC chatter. They basically behave like a bunch of children stuck in the back seat of a hot car on a long journey, insulting each other needlessly, winding each other, bickering, getting into actual fights, and so on. They don't behave like adult humans in a perilous situation. No other game before or since ever made me want to shout "DON'T MAKE ME COME BACK THERE!" at the screen the way BG1/2 (esp. BG1) did. Jaheira actually got the boot from my party eventually because she was such an absolute wanker for this.

But when they talk to the PC, they're usually more measured, if weirdly whingy/whiny in tone (esp. in BG2 there's a lot of just whinging from companions, especially about other companions, like not complaints even, whinging).

BG3 did screw up at launch as I've written about many times. The companions weren't so much abrasive, that's the wrong word as just like, unfriendly and unlikeable. They didn't sort of scratch at you the way abrasive suggests as just keep you so distant it felt weird they'd be in the party. But thanks to feedback on this they course-corrected pretty hard! And before we even got out of Early Access, all the companions were pretty likeable.

It's just a question of preference. I don't want to be buddies with someone who tries to suck my blood while I sleep, a slaver who would be more than happy to subjugate me and everyone else, a supposed ally that is secretly evil and on and on. The redemption stories for most of the companions feels almost tacked on, like the expected path is the evil one.
I mean, that's definitely you projecting, rather than how the game is actually written.

The evil path is much more weakly supported than the good path. Like that's not up for debate. That's a cold hard fact, even after them adding a ton to it after release (note: added later, not the original, intended path), it's still very weak and limited.

Fully 50% of companions will not be accessible to you if you are evil, for example. You literally have to kill 5 out of 10 of them. Karlach, Wyll, Halsin, Jaheria and Minsc.

So that means the only companions allowed for an evil run are Astarion, Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Gale and Minthara.

On a good run, you can theoretically recruit all companions, and don't strictly have to kill any of them. So you get to keep all 10 if you want. The only one it's likely you kill is Minthara, who was previously an evil-only companion (or only possible to recruit through glitches), and often aggros on you before you even get to talk to her (depending on how you go through the Goblin area). You also have far, far fewer vendors available, because as part of the evil path, you have to kill a lot of the vendors (or take actions that lead to their deaths). In general, going evil is the "narrow" path.

Now, it is worth noting, that, before Early Access even, Dark Urge was the original default path. But that's the same as BG1 and BG2 - you're Bhaalspawn (sorry for spoilers for these three games). However, feedback got them to add "Tav" - i.e. full custom, not Bhaalspawn. And even Dark Urge is not "the evil path", because it's mostly about resisting being the Dark Urge, resisting behaving like a Bhaalspawn - again this has more content and more interactions and is actually more rewarding in all senses of the word (including literal power and items) than giving in and being The Dark Urge fully.

As an aside, Astarion, for all his talk, doesn't actually kill anyone after being changed by the parasite, canonically, even on an evil run. People have looked into it in some detail. He can I think technically kill the PC if you let him drink and then critically fail convincing him to stop (which is like, a DC5 Persuasion check or something). Plus if you really don't like him, you can stake him, and no-one really bats an eyelid lol! Lae'zel I think you've fallen for her naughty word. See, Lae'zel, you might not immediately realize this because she's scarred and not a human, is only 21, and was raised in an isolated and insane military compound cult, which she lived in the whole time before this. She has like, zero experience of anything but that cult, zero exposure to morality and concepts which aren't from that cult, and just absolutely talks smack in the exact way as ignorant 21-year-olds who are as they say "frontin'" do. She's scared, confused, worried, and so on, and is just pretending like she knows all this stuff - she's also factually wrong about a lot of stuff, and very naive. So calling her a "slaver" and so on as if she's some cackling evildoer is pretty silly stuff, imo. And I think her redemption arc is probably the most convincing growth in the game, because you start seeing through the cracks that she doesn't anything about anything, and whilst she's very tough (they kill the ones who aren't), she doesn't believe this stuff because she actually has considered all the possibilities and gone "Yes, this is the life for me!", she believes it initially because it's the only life she's ever had (not even a proper Githyanki life, just raised on the Prime Material in a training camp for younglings, forced to kill other children from an early age, like what do you expect?). Shadowheart's entire backstory is bigger spoilers than I'll go into but the idea that the redemption path is "tacked on" but the much shorter and clumsier evil path is "intended" seems truly bizarre. Gale doesn't have an evil path (he's just a sad boi if you're evil). I don't think Minthara has a redemption arc, she's still Minthara. She just as a "Well I guess I picked the wrong side" angle, it's not really an arc. She's never a good person. Obviously Karlach, Wyll, Halsin, Jaheira and Minsc don't have villain or redemption arcs, because they don't need 'em.

Also, like, I'm guessing you didn't finish the game, because "an ally that is secretly evil"? No? There isn't one? Shadowheart isn't "secretly evil", and The Guardian, whilst amoral and shocking in their true identity, isn't quite evil in any conventional D&D sense, because they don't seek to do evil. Plus what you think you're supposed to go "Aha, I appreciate you lying to me and hiding your identity, hi-five!"? I would suggest about the writing means about 95% of players get very angry with the Guardian after the reveal.

There are legit criticisms of the game being a bit bloodthirsty and some grimdark-adjacent at times but so were BG1 and BG2 (more so than other games like IWD), and the game was indeed initially designed to present you with a lot of lose/lose choices, but that got changed very early on, and now many of the situations, the good choices are much better and more natural than those were (also only Act 1 even existed back then, and Act 2 and Act 3 got re-written multiple times since then, not just because of feedback, but also they changed a lot of the plot to revolve around the tadpoles less).

Like, I get the fear of Larian "going back to their old ways" as per DOS1/2 and in some real ways that was where BG3 started, but your assessment of what's actually in the final product of BG3 is not correct. From what you're saying it kind of feels like you played in Early Access, didn't finish Act 1, and gave up.
 

Beyond would suggest otherwise, also the runaway hit that is Arena. They have several full video game studios that they are sinking serious resources into, as well, Exodus in particular looks very promising.
I think I have to agree with @Dausuul here, though also with you re: Exodus.

Beyond wasn't a WotC product at all, the only credit they can take is that they gave that licence to a company which made good use of it, and had the sense of eventually (after they'd been sold twice already!) buy them. It's notable that a lot of people, including me, expected Beyond to improve after WotC bought it, because the two previous successive owners had cut staff and reduced resources. WotC did bring some more people on board, I understand, but it seems like that just stopped it getting worse, and improved their ability to add new works (which is technically an improvement!), but didn't give them the resources to either go back and fix stuff they'd promised to fix years ago, nor to make bigger improvements they said they'd wanted to make.

Sigil is the biggest red flag here, and genuinely confuses me a lot. According to Cynthia Williams, they had 250 people working on it at one point, and even if she overstated (who knows), they certainly had 33+ people on it full time for a long time. That's an investment of tens of millions of dollars, and which was announced with a lot of hype. And what did they get? Essentially nothing. We have a product you can download and use, but which isn't being maintained or added to, and which isn't fit for the purpose it was designed for. It's what you'd expect in an internal alpha test of the concept, not a finished product. I mean, I can't lie, I always assumed Sigil would fail to meet expectations, but I did expect WotC to finish it and launch it properly as the product they described, just that it wouldn't do the volume of MTX they were anticipating, at least initially. I guess internal corporate manuevering got it after Williams left.

Re: Exodus, I like a lot of what I'm seeing, but we're still seeming to be pretty far from release, and what we're looking at could be anything from a really incredible 10/10 Mass Effect beater, to a deeply mediocre and forgettable 6/10 kind of game (I doubt it'd be worse than that), which fails to live up to any of its promises. Definitely hoping it's the former, obviously, love that style of game. They've been working on it for six years now (some of that pre-production, of course), which is not an insane time for an AAA cinematic RPG at all, but I do worry a little that WotC may force them to put it out the door before it's actually done (or worse, just cancel it). I hope sanity prevails and WotC's corporate leadership realizes the value of having a good reputation and the very significant extra sales from you get from a game with like 85% or 90% reviews over 80% or less reviews is worth the tens of millions it might cost to keep it in production another year or two. This is their first AAA - whether it's a good game or not will have a strong influence on how future games are regarded. Also if it is good, the smart play is probably to go straight into Exodus II rather than a different direction - it's a game intended to have sequels, if I understand correctly.

WotC own several studios now, and can potentially build a good rep as a publisher, but it's really going to depend on them making good choices, something they've really struggled with previously re: digital.
 

I heard the thy guys who made Factorico are looking to make an RPG next. Hire them???
Factorio is a wild and crazy impressive game, but... I don't think anyone is going to hire them with their current guy in charge, who has a history of attacking age-of-consent laws as "woke" and immoral (he thinks there should be no laws there, so probably going to get arrested on "serious charges" one day...), among other things. Factorio it kind of doesn't matter because his weird-ass views on stuff are basically irrelevant to a game about building an automated factory on an alien planet. But in an RPG, with choices and so on? Uhhhhh I think they might show up, and that would be a problem.

It's a bit of a Minecraft situation, where the creator is talented but totally demented - Microsoft bought Notch out rather than work with him.
 

I think I have to agree with @Dausuul here, though also with you re: Exodus.

Beyond wasn't a WotC product at all, the only credit they can take is that they gave that licence to a company which made good use of it, and had the sense of eventually (after they'd been sold twice already!) buy them. It's notable that a lot of people, including me, expected Beyond to improve after WotC bought it, because the two previous successive owners had cut staff and reduced resources. WotC did bring some more people on board, I understand, but it seems like that just stopped it getting worse, and improved their ability to add new works (which is technically an improvement!), but didn't give them the resources to either go back and fix stuff they'd promised to fix years ago, nor to make bigger improvements they said they'd wanted to make.

Sigil is the biggest red flag here, and genuinely confuses me a lot. According to Cynthia Williams, they had 250 people working on it at one point, and even if she overstated (who knows), they certainly had 33+ people on it full time for a long time. That's an investment of tens of millions of dollars, and which was announced with a lot of hype. And what did they get? Essentially nothing. We have a product you can download and use, but which isn't being maintained or added to, and which isn't fit for the purpose it was designed for. It's what you'd expect in an internal alpha test of the concept, not a finished product. I mean, I can't lie, I always assumed Sigil would fail to meet expectations, but I did expect WotC to finish it and launch it properly as the product they described, just that it wouldn't do the volume of MTX they were anticipating, at least initially. I guess internal corporate manuevering got it after Williams left.

Re: Exodus, I like a lot of what I'm seeing, but we're still seeming to be pretty far from release, and what we're looking at could be anything from a really incredible 10/10 Mass Effect beater, to a deeply mediocre and forgettable 6/10 kind of game (I doubt it'd be worse than that), which fails to live up to any of its promises. Definitely hoping it's the former, obviously, love that style of game. They've been working on it for six years now (some of that pre-production, of course), which is not an insane time for an AAA cinematic RPG at all, but I do worry a little that WotC may force them to put it out the door before it's actually done (or worse, just cancel it). I hope sanity prevails and WotC's corporate leadership realizes the value of having a good reputation and the very significant extra sales from you get from a game with like 85% or 90% reviews over 80% or less reviews is worth the tens of millions it might cost to keep it in production another year or two. This is their first AAA - whether it's a good game or not will have a strong influence on how future games are regarded. Also if it is good, the smart play is probably to go straight into Exodus II rather than a different direction - it's a game intended to have sequels, if I understand correctly.

WotC own several studios now, and can potentially build a good rep as a publisher, but it's really going to depend on them making good choices, something they've really struggled with previously re: digital.
Yeah, Sigil's total collapse is pretty shocking.

We haven't seen enough of Exodus to have much opinion about the game proper,but so far they at least have some excellent tie-in fiction (the novel was really a good deal of fun, and felt like a solid setup for shockingly old school Gygaxian "D&D...iiiiiiiin Spaaaaaaace!") and a solid TTRPG handbook for sci-fi 5E. But ao far the moat promising parts are there: talent, budget and time.

I am not saying WotC will become a video game powerhouse, but it is also a logical fallacy to assume they can't because of the character builder CD that came with the 3E PHB or Gleemax (which I seem to see a lot in general on this topic).
 

I think I have to agree with @Dausuul here, though also with you re: Exodus.

Beyond wasn't a WotC product at all, the only credit they can take is that they gave that licence to a company which made good use of it, and had the sense of eventually (after they'd been sold twice already!) buy them. It's notable that a lot of people, including me, expected Beyond to improve after WotC bought it, because the two previous successive owners had cut staff and reduced resources. WotC did bring some more people on board, I understand, but it seems like that just stopped it getting worse, and improved their ability to add new works (which is technically an improvement!), but didn't give them the resources to either go back and fix stuff they'd promised to fix years ago, nor to make bigger improvements they said they'd wanted to make.

Sigil is the biggest red flag here, and genuinely confuses me a lot. According to Cynthia Williams, they had 250 people working on it at one point, and even if she overstated (who knows), they certainly had 33+ people on it full time for a long time. That's an investment of tens of millions of dollars, and which was announced with a lot of hype. And what did they get? Essentially nothing. We have a product you can download and use, but which isn't being maintained or added to, and which isn't fit for the purpose it was designed for. It's what you'd expect in an internal alpha test of the concept, not a finished product. I mean, I can't lie, I always assumed Sigil would fail to meet expectations, but I did expect WotC to finish it and launch it properly as the product they described, just that it wouldn't do the volume of MTX they were anticipating, at least initially. I guess internal corporate manuevering got it after Williams left.

Re: Exodus, I like a lot of what I'm seeing, but we're still seeming to be pretty far from release, and what we're looking at could be anything from a really incredible 10/10 Mass Effect beater, to a deeply mediocre and forgettable 6/10 kind of game (I doubt it'd be worse than that), which fails to live up to any of its promises. Definitely hoping it's the former, obviously, love that style of game. They've been working on it for six years now (some of that pre-production, of course), which is not an insane time for an AAA cinematic RPG at all, but I do worry a little that WotC may force them to put it out the door before it's actually done (or worse, just cancel it). I hope sanity prevails and WotC's corporate leadership realizes the value of having a good reputation and the very significant extra sales from you get from a game with like 85% or 90% reviews over 80% or less reviews is worth the tens of millions it might cost to keep it in production another year or two. This is their first AAA - whether it's a good game or not will have a strong influence on how future games are regarded. Also if it is good, the smart play is probably to go straight into Exodus II rather than a different direction - it's a game intended to have sequels, if I understand correctly.

WotC own several studios now, and can potentially build a good rep as a publisher, but it's really going to depend on them making good choices, something they've really struggled with previously re: digital.
I personally believe that Sigil was an attempt at empire building by someone(s) and an attempt to replace Beyond. Mostly due to the fact that it appears to ignore all the benefits that Beyond integration could provide.

I have a habit of checking when it comes up. They are still adding minis to the Marketplace (for free) on Beyond and the bugs are being fixed, and the suggestions page is being maintained. At least someone is responding.

Last release update seems to be July with 9 things listed, most bug fixes, one feature, one feature request, and referring people to the new content on the Marketplace.
Looks like at least one person is still doing something with the codebase over there.

I always thought that Sigil was premature. A 2D VTT is relatively simple compared to 3D, building a 3D map is time consuming and one area that strikes me as ideal for AI automation. Create something that can transform a 2D map into 3D and allow the addition of decor, set dressing and does fog of war, line of sight.

Also, thought it was odd that they built this thing with apparently little idea of how to market or monetize it.
 

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