D&D General What is player agency to you?

[FrogReaver]

I think you use ‘meaningless’ as ‘uninformed’, ie if you know nothing that helps you with the decision, then it does not matter to you in that moment which one you pick, as you have nothing to go on. It will very much matter / have meaning after the fact…

Almost but not quite - uninformed is sufficient to make a choice meaningless, but not necessary to do so.

 

[mamba]

The outcome isn't meaningless. The choice is. You are conflating meaning in some area for meaning in all areas.

I am pointing out in which way @pemerton is using meaningless and in which way you are

 

[FrogReaver]

I am pointing out in which way @pemerton is using meaningless and in which way you are

I don't think it differs.

 

[mamba]

I don't think it differs.

you just told me I am conflating things, so there are two things here. Are you saying you and @pemerton are using it the same way? Because you very clearly are not…

“In fact, the whole OSR approach to designing dungeon maps (Jacquay and all that) rests on the premise that those sorts of action declarations are highly meaningful and are high agency.”

That is him using it the way I did

“Without additional context/info i'd suggest that left rather than right or north door rather than south door are meaningless choices.”

that is you using it as uninformed

 

[FrogReaver]

you just told me I am conflating things, so there are two things here. Are you saying you and @pemerton are using it the same way? Because you very clearly are not…

I believe pemerton and I are using it the same way. From what I can see, you are the only one here that brings up the consequences of a choice after the fact as an argument that the choice was meaningful.

 

[FrogReaver]

“In fact, the whole OSR approach to designing dungeon maps (Jacquay and all that) rests on the premise that those sorts of action declarations are highly meaningful and are high agency.”

That is him using it the way I did

No it isn't. But I'll let him speak for himself.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

This is contrary to my experience.

IME most young/inexperienced DMs are much MORE stingy with information/allowing the players to "do stuff." They tend to be fearful of the group "too easily" solving their scenarios.

and then IME, As they get more comfortable with running many DMs tend to start becoming MORE not less permissive with allowing player creativity/activity.

One of the most common things I used to see was the brand new/inexperienced GMs who believe that being a 'hard ass' is equivalent to good GMing. Some never learn better, lol.

 

[mamba]

I believe pemerton and I are using it the same way. From what I can see, you are the only one here that brings up the consequences of a choice after the fact as an argument that the choice was meaningful.

ok, I am out then, just trying to clear up what I perceive as a confusion between you two

 

[FrogReaver]

that is you using it as uninformed

I don't use it as uninformed.

Since things keep getting jumbled and miscommunicated I'm asking for a little more rigor.

As I just said - "uninformed is sufficient to make a choice meaningless, but not necessary to do so."

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh I see now. We are back to this old argument. Premise: "If magic can be an acceptable fictional explanation for eliding time and space" Conclusion: "Then it never matters how time and space are elided". That logic doesn't follow.

There is no time and space in a non-existent fantasy world, therefor it cannot be elided.