D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Hussar]

Personally, I'm not sure how that stat block can be used for merchants or artisans (as it claims to be) either, but that's what's in the MM.

Npcs don’t need stat blocks?

I mean that a bit tongue in cheek, but, unless your townspeople are mobbing to burn the witch, why would you bother with a stat block for the grocer or the cook?

Ohhhhh. Right. They need a stat block to be believable.

There’s probably the biggest issue in 5e. Gamers who were trained by 3e and its antecedent games that everyone and everything needs game stats.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Maybe, just maybe, and I'm just spit-balling here but maybe the fact that they don't try to tell people how to play their game is one of the (many) reasons that it's the best selling version of D&D in recent history. I'd say best selling ever but it's not like TSR knew how to keep records. While there are a lot of other factors at play you don't get to be the best selling TTRPG by far with a crap product*.

There's plenty of supplemental material from modules to streams to approximately a bazillion blogs out there giving advice on how to run the game. If I want to pick up just about any hobby nowadays all I need is an internet connection and I have more advice than I know what to do with. But the fact that after hundreds of posts the only thing we can consistently say is bad is the layout of the DMG and the index? Really? Have you ever tried to use the indexes in older editions? Some were decent but most left, if we're being charitable, something to be desired.

*and of course the standard disclaimer that there are other high quality products out there, saying D&D is not total garbage is not saying it's the best design ever, yada, yada, yada.

All hail the Matt Mercer effect!

 

[James Gasik]

Npcs don’t need stat blocks?

I mean that a bit tongue in cheek, but, unless your townspeople are mobbing to burn the witch, why would you bother with a stat block for the grocer or the cook?

Ohhhhh. Right. They need a stat block to be believable.

There’s probably the biggest issue in 5e. Gamers who were trained by 3e and its antecedent games that everyone and everything needs game stats.

I mean, that's nothing new; games have been statting everything for a very long time, even things that shouldn't need stats, like gods (thanks Deities & Demigods!), the durability and hit points of castle walls, and even eldritch horrors (Cthulhu can instantly devour 1d6 investigators a turn, you know!).

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe, just maybe, and I'm just spit-balling here but maybe the fact that they don't try to tell people how to play their game is one of the (many) reasons that it's the best selling version of D&D in recent history. I'd say best selling ever but it's not like TSR knew how to keep records. While there are a lot of other factors at play you don't get to be the best selling TTRPG by far with a crap product*.

Nah.

5e is the best selling edition because it has some of the best game mechanics which are easy to learn for new gamer.

Proficiency modifier
(Dis)Advantage
Simple DC track

5e just has a crappy instruction manual and doesn't advance past basics, eschewing everything else to the community.

5e isn't popular because itdoesn't tell you what you do. You could always do whatever you wanted.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

My argument was not that the Subclasses have different leveling structures or complexity.

My argument was that the Subclass levels were purely chosen to fill dead levels based on how powerful or complex the base class was.

Crawford practically alluded to this with the rogue getting new space for class features by changing the subclass model.

The fighter has the most subclass features because it is just 4 classes features that upgrade about twice each which leaves a ton of dead levels.
The bard has the least subclass features because it is a full caster with actual class features.

That's gridfilling

Yeah, there you go! That's a problem, for sure. Does it "count", though? I defer to the community.

Aside: For my part, I understood your original point. I didn't make the above list, I just cut-and-pasted it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Makes me think that Background should have some bearing on hit points, then. An Outlander Sorcerer should be tougher than a Sage Wizard...but I digress.

while i think it'd be an interesting feature to actually tie certain stat bonuses to certain backgrounds but i'm fairly certain it would get shouted down like fixed ASI because 'optimum choices' exist and 'not being able to pick out my specific bonuses stifles my ability to create my perfect character'

 

[mamba]

Exactly. I was wondering what we were going to get discussed and I did not have "physical capabilities of real world people as compared to characters in the game." I don't think that's an issue many people have thought about too much. The designers did think about it in 3X, but since then? I don't think it has been a concern.

and it still isn’t, the underlying issue is

And this is a challenge of D&D trying to be all things to all people. Choosing to have humans in it which ground the fiction and make it feel more relatable, but also having those humans be capable of things no real-world human could do.

some want a grounded fiction that players can relate to and understand, not superheroes.

I think the issue one poster had with players not knowing how to interact with things (NPCs or the environment) is partially caused by this disconnect too. They somehow believe the solution to anything must be on the char sheet instead of just behaving like a ‘normal human being’.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They are not representative of actual game play.

In the level of skill and intensity of roleplaying involved? Sure.

In terms of what actually happens in the game and how the participants see the game, setting, etc? Absolutely they're extremely representative.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Are we sure the game isn't about heroes?

View attachment 293283

Yeah funny that right? D&D has always been about heroic characters (again, ancient Greek/Conan-style meaning), and 5E is no less like that.

 

[Hussar]

Here’s another true issue:

Lack of trust for non-WotC sources.

Almost all the stuff talked about - mundane fighters, etc- has a solution on Dms Guild. They’re right there. You want ship combat systems? There’s at least four on dms guild. I know because I own them.

The biggest problem with 5e is that everyone wants WotC to “fix” their particular issue while completely ignoring the many existing solutions.