D&D 5E D&D's Classic Settings Are Not 'One Shots'

In an interview with ComicBook.com, WotC's Jeremy Crawford talked about the visits to Ravenloft, Eberron, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, and (the upcoming) Planescape we've seen over the last couple of years, and their intentions for the future.

He indicated that they plan to revisit some of these settings again in the future, noting that the setting books are among their most popular books.

We love [the campaign setting books], because they help highlight just how wonderfully rich D&D is. They highlight that D&D can be gothic horror. D&D can be fantasy in space. D&D can be trippy adventures in the afterlife, in terms of Planescape. D&D can be classic high fantasy, in the form of the Forgotten Realms. It can be sort of a steampunk-like fantasy, like in Eberron. We feel it's vital to visit these settings, to tell stories in them. And we look forward to returning to them. So we do not view these as one-shots.

- Jeremy Crawford​

The whole 'multiverse' concept that D&D is currently exploring plays into this, giving them opportunities to resist worlds.

When asked about the release schedule of these books, Crawford noted that the company plans its release schedule so that players get chance to play the material, not just read it, and they don't want to swamp people with too much content to use.

Our approach to how we design for the game and how we plan out the books for it is a play-first approach. At certain times in D&D's history, it's really been a read-first approach. Because we've had points in our history where we were producing so many books each year, there was no way anyone could play all of it. In some years it would be hard to play even a small percentage of the number of things that come out. Because we have a play-first approach, we want to make sure we're coming out with things at a pace where if you really wanted to, and even that would require a lot of weekends and evenings dedicated to D&D play, you could play a lot of it.

- Jeremy Crawford​

You can read more in the interview at ComicBook.com.

 

[humble minion]

I've also discovered that I don't like the Astral Sea as the connecting tissue. More specifically, I don't like the apparently trivial process of navigating from one Wild Space system to another.

This is boring: "To get to Greyspace from anywhere, think about Greyspace".

I'd prefer: "The shortest route to Greyspace is through Clusterspace which is dangerous, so you might want to take the longer but safer route through Realmspace. Or if you are in good standing with the elves, you could take a short cut though Xaryxispace..."

Urgh, I already didn't like 5e Spelljammer for a bunch of different reasons, but that hadn't even really registered with me properly.

Who decides to make a swashbuckling spaceship setting, then neglects both fighting other spaceships in your spaceship, and also actually having any damn navigation or route-finding choices to make in your spaceship? I mean, they might as well just have created a setting that simply teleported you to the next dungeon, and saved EVEN MORE of the page count.

 

[JEB]

Urgh, I already didn't like 5e Spelljammer for a bunch of different reasons, but that hadn't even really registered with me properly.

Who decides to make a swashbuckling spaceship setting, then neglects both fighting other spaceships in your spaceship, and also actually having any damn navigation or route-finding choices to make in your spaceship? I mean, they might as well just have created a setting that simply teleported you to the next dungeon, and saved EVEN MORE of the page count.

Seems like a missed opportunity to do more with the exploration pillar, too.

 

[Hussar]

Note it’s not quite that cut and dry. You certainly can encounter all sorts of stuff while travelling the astral sea.

And exploring is more at the crystal sphere level where travel can take weeks.

Think of Astral Sea travel like Hyperspace travel in StarWars. Or Warp travel in Star Trek.

Yes stuff can happen while you are at warp, but 99% of stuff happens outside of warp/hyperspace.

And, again, please stop insisting there is no ship combat rules. They are there. They are perfectly serviceable. And, IME that’s what players want.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

One other interesting thing about 5E Ravenloft. Some Easter eggs suggest that the classic Ravenloft setting did canonically exist at one point (the domain of Klorr being the most obvious, but also bits like Dominic d'Honaire's appearance in an insane asylum). And the designer of the new Valachan said they wrote it as "a continuation, not a retcon". Makes one wonder if in an earlier design stage, it was designed to be an update and advancement of the setting (akin to the Realms and Eberron updates), rather than a reboot... but Wizards changed their minds. Oh well.

The problem is that Perkin's CoS is insistent that it is set 730s-ishBC, and the extended setting ties into that and is set concurrently.....making it set BEFORE all the 2E and 3E material. The best of all, is there was no damn reason for him to choose that date at all except ignorance. It's truly astonishing.

 

[Echohawk]

Note it’s not quite that cut and dry. You certainly can encounter all sorts of stuff while travelling the astral sea.
And exploring is more at the crystal sphere level where travel can take weeks.
Think of Astral Sea travel like Hyperspace travel in StarWars. Or Warp travel in Star Trek.
Yes stuff can happen while you are at warp, but 99% of stuff happens outside of warp/hyperspace.

The difference is that every Wildspace system is essentially equidistant from every other Wildspace system. In Star Trek, you still have to go through the Neutral Zone to get to the other side, even at warp speed. In Spelljammer, you never have to go through one Wildspace system to get to another one. The only thing you ever travel through is the Astral.

I understand that the Astral Sea can also contain fun and interesting encounters, but Spelljammer lore is replete with great wars between different space-faring civilizations. It's less obvious to me how those play out with a flat cosmological model. There's no incentive for Scro forces to provide protection to a plasmoid-dominated system because that system is between the Scro worlds and an outbreak of clockwork horrors in a system nearby.

To use a naval analogy, I would prefer "nations challenging each other for control of the seas" over "some interesting ocean islands to explore". A less flat cosmology would assist me with that.

And, again, please stop insisting there is no ship combat rules. They are there. They are perfectly serviceable. And, IME that’s what players want.

Agreed. I was, at first, annoyed at the lack of attention given to ship combat. But combat using the (sparse!) 5e rules worked really well for us in practice. It provides a sense of an exciting clash between vessels, but actually keeps all of the attention firmly on the players and what they are doing. At this point, I would probably find more involved ship combat distracting from the game.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I wasn't bothered by the 5e changes to Spelljammer's cosmology until I started my current Spelljammer campaign. I've been discovering that more 2e lore than I expected has links to the phlogiston or to the existence of crystal spheres

I've also discovered that I don't like the Astral Sea as the connecting tissue. More specifically, I don't like the apparently trivial process of navigating from one Wild Space system to another.

This is boring: "To get to Greyspace from anywhere, think about Greyspace".

I'd prefer: "The shortest route to Greyspace is through Clusterspace which is dangerous, so you might want to take the longer but safer route through Realmspace. Or if you are in good standing with the elves, you could take a short cut though Xaryxispace..."


Your views on WotC's approach definitely make more sense to me viewed through an understanding that Ravenloft was your favorite setting. I can sympathize, since I am a fan of the licensed 3e setting material for Ravenloft.

Bigby at least got a whole reason for him suddenly to be a gnome (killed and reincarnated) despite them not having made a 5E Greyhawk and thety couldve just said, "he's always been a gnome, the other editions aren't canon". Ravenloft canon just got set on fire and danced around merrily.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Fair enough. But, then again, Soth's been retconned fifteen ways from Sunday anyway. Let's be honest here, the ship sailed a LONG time ago on complaining about changes to Dragonlance continuity.

Ravenloft? Fair enough. And...? I mean that's one setting. A setting that had not had official material since 2e, virtually none of which anyone actually played. We know that because Ravenloft didn't sell very well at all. The number of people who actually know anything about previous Ravenloft lore is vanishingly small. Are we really going to be beholden to the three people who actually care about this?

But, ok, I'll grant Ravenloft. OTOH, we've had several adventures in FOrgotten Realms that have done a pretty decent job in keeping in line with lore. A Greyhawk adventure that, other than a couple of updates like adding Tieflings, is virtually identical to the original adventures as in word for word identical. Spelljammer doesn't really contradict any existing Spelljammer material (mostly becuase it lacks so much information) and does manage to present the framework, if only in a very minimal way.

Yet, funnily enough, I head over to DM's Guild and see The Harvesters of Worlds - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild Harvester of Worlds, which presents all sorts of Spelljammer lore in a very interesting adventure. If Spelljammer had completely changed the setting, how come I can run modules in 5e Spelljammer that dovetail very nicely with existing lore?

Yes, we get it. Some people don't like the new Ravenloft material. But, it's not like WOtC has done that to every setting. WotC's actually been taking a very light touch about lore.

In 2E Ravenloft sold better than any other 2E setting bar Forgotten Realms. It wasn't canned because of sales, it was because WoTC didn't like horror adventures being in a different setting (same reason as for Planescape). Greyhawk got another resurrection in 2E because Peter Adkinson was a grognard who loved it. It didn't sell anywhere near Ravenloft did in 2E.

 

[humble minion]

The problem is that Perkin's CoS is insistent that it is set 730s-ishBC, and the extended setting ties into that and is set concurrently.....making it set BEFORE all the 2E and 3E material. The best of all, is there was no damn reason for him to choose that date at all except ignorance. It's truly astonishing.

CoS is a flat-out retcon, I don't think there's any realistic way of denying that. I vaguely remember WotC just being relatively open about the fact when CoS was new, but honestly, there isn't any way of fitting it in pre-5e continuity and WotC shouldn't bother trying. I mean hell, with the removal of the Core from Ravenloft and the rewriting of most of the domains, I don't think there meaningfully is anything you could call continuity in RL any more. Domains are now all just timeloops where the Darklord goes round and round and round in circles, surrounded by people-shapes that are mere shadow-puppets of the Dark Powers, forever failing to learn their lessons. Continuity only matters if anything meaningful exists in the place outside the Darklord's punishment.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

CoS is a flat-out retcon, I don't think there's any realistic way of denying that. I vaguely remember WotC just being relatively open about the fact when CoS was new, but honestly, there isn't any way of fitting it in pre-5e continuity and WotC shouldn't bother trying. I mean hell, with the removal of the Core from Ravenloft and the rewriting of most of the domains, I don't think there meaningfully is anything you could call continuity in RL any more. Domains are now all just timeloops where the Darklord goes round and round and round in circles, surrounded by people-shapes that are mere shadow-puppets of the Dark Powers, forever failing to learn their lessons. Continuity only matters if anything meaningful exists in the place outside the Darklord's punishment.

 

[Velderan]

Fair enough. But, then again, Soth's been retconned fifteen ways from Sunday anyway. Let's be honest here, the ship sailed a LONG time ago on complaining about changes to Dragonlance continuity.

While I would have rather Soth been handled differently in SotDQ, nothing WotC did was anywhere near as damaging to the character concept as the "Lord Soth" novel that was published in 1996. The majority of the criticism I've read about his story arc is because of the way that book portrayed him and it all made it into the wikis as canon.