D&D (2024) Do you think they will add more races to PHB2024 to make up for dropping other stuff?

[Micah Sweet]

Heh heh, okay, well, then you don't need to tell me... you need to tell all the people who absolutely don't want mix 'n match species feature design, cause I'm good with it! Quoting me makes it sound like I'm the one you disagreed with, LOL.

You're the one who said that all heritage mechanics suck. I was offering an example of one that I think doesn't.

You make sweeping statements, you get responses.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You're the one who said that all heritage mechanics suck. I was offering an example of one that I think doesn't.

You make sweeping statements, you get responses.

Oh okay. Well in that case, if they are basically based on 5E, I'm sure the heritage mechanics in Level Up suck too.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'd be fine with "Mix and Match" being relegated to the DMG too - indeed, I've proposed that before. I just want some indication that there will be core system options above and beyond "Pick a Parent" that don't leave mechanically minded players like myself hanging in the wind on this or shove the responsibility of properly addressing it onto 3rd parties and homebrew.

Species mechanics are a small but important part of how I conceptualize who a character is, and not having some kind of distinct mixed ancestry traits to work with (even if I have to piece them together myself) renders the whole exercise of creating a mixed ancestry character shallow, uninspiring, and meaningless. A Khoravar using human traits doesn't feel like a Khoravar to me, it feels like a human wearing fake, pointy costume ears.

And again, if "Half-elves/orcs shouldn't get special treatment by being the only mixed options with unique stats" means that no mixed options can get unique stats, then what happens the next time they take a look at Eberron? Khoravar and Jhor'guntaal aren't the only mixed ancestry populations in the setting, but they are by far the most prominent. If the goal is less about actually supporting diverse mixed ancestry options and more about making sure half-elf/orcs don't stand out from the crowd, then that doesn't end well for Eberron's existing lore, and this is a setting that very specifically doesn't do the "half-orcs are primarily the result of nonconsensual boinking" stuff.

The Khoravar have been developed to be a campaign-specific race that breeds true in Eberron. They can be included in an Eberron book as Khoravar. Absoutely just as appropriate as tieflings and aasimar and other species of mixed heritage. I do wish that Wizards had figured out the 1st level feat for all characters before Eberron came out, so the dragonmarked houses were species 1st-level feats, not actual racial/species options themselves.

Again, as long as the rules for "half-elves" exist in DDB and SRD, which they will be, they are not being erased from the game if they aren't in the PH 2024. Not every species needs to be in every book.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The Khoravar have been developed to be a campaign-specific race that breeds true in Eberron. They can be included in an Eberron book as Khoravar. Absoutely just as appropriate as tieflings and aasimar and other species of mixed heritage. I do wish that Wizards had figured out the 1st level feat for all characters before Eberron came out, so the dragonmarked houses were species 1st-level feats, not actual racial/species options themselves.

Again, as long as the rules for "half-elves" exist in DDB and SRD, which they will be, they are not being erased from the game if they aren't in the PH 2024. Not every species needs to be in every book.

But they should be in every copy of the same editions PH.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

So in order to play a Khoravar from House Lyrandar, I now have to play a human and spend all of my first level feats to get both elf traits and my Mark of Storm.

If the solution to not dealing with mixed-ancestry within the species mechanics is to turn bundles of species traits into feat packages, what even is the point of having species mechanics anymore?

We're basically building up a conceptual system where the act of choosing your character's species is just mixing-and-matching a selection of "ancestry feats", so how is that really all that different than mixing-and-matching species traits in the first place? The fact that it costs more character customization resources and still forces you to take everything from the "elf" package in order to justify being "part-elf"?

The Khoravar of House Lyrandar (Mark of Storm Half-elf) is a species option in the game. It's not being erased. It's just not in the Core PH.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

But they should be in every copy of the same editions PH.

There will be at least 4 wizard subclasses and 4 cleric subclasses that were in the 2014 PH that won't be in the 2024 PH. It's not going to break the game. The options still exist.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There will be at least 4 wizard subclasses and 4 cleric subclasses that were in the 2014 PH that won't be in the 2024 PH. It's not going to break the game. The options still exist.

Yeah, that's a problem too if they're going to insist the two books are the same edition without a name change.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

The Khoravar have been developed to be a campaign-specific race that breeds true in Eberron. They can be included in an Eberron book as Khoravar. Absoutely just as appropriate as tieflings and aasimar and other species of mixed heritage. I do wish that Wizards had figured out the 1st level feat for all characters before Eberron came out, so the dragonmarked houses were species 1st-level feats, not actual racial/species options themselves.

Again, as long as the rules for "half-elves" exist in DDB and SRD, which they will be, they are not being erased from the game if they aren't in the PH 2024. Not every species needs to be in every book.

The Khoravar of House Lyrandar (Mark of Storm Half-elf) is a species option in the game. It's not being erased. It's just not in the Core PH.

I am perfectly aware that the '14 half-elf and half-orc aren't being completely erased - they're not coming to take away my physical books and they'll still be on Beyond as legacy options for as long as that lasts. But they are clearly being depreciated, and the way they end up handling mixed-ancestry characters in '24 is going to be the basis for how they deal with half-elves/orcs going forward.

That would be fine if what they were proposing felt like it supported half-elves/orcs sufficiently to me. But instead, their proposal and most of the discussion around it feels specifically designed to take away focus from half-elves and half-orcs under the guise of supporting everything else, but in a way that fundamentally supports nothing at all. "Pick a Parent" doesn't somehow let you play any possible permutation of mixed-ancestry, it forces everyone to play single-ancestry and papers over it with "your character can look however you want them to" as though that wasn't already an option. As long as your DM was on board with it, your human character could come to the table with a tail, horns, and digitigrade legs without needing to change a single aspect of their game statistics. "Pick a Parent" doesn't add anything, it just formalizes what was already an option. You want your dragonborn to have a little bit of genasi in their ancestry? Sure, go right ahead - you're still using dragonborn stats, though. Want to play a half-elf? Sure thing, but at the end of the day, they're still either just an elf or just a human.

That makes this whole effort feel like half-elves and half-orcs are being shoved into a sidebar for the express purpose of not having to talk about them anymore, as though they're uncomfortable acknowledging their existence without simultaneously burying them in "What about tiefling-goliaths, or orc-dwarves, or tabaxi-centaur, or..." ad infinitum. It makes it feel like the purpose of this exercise is specifically to sideline and deemphasize the presence of half-elves/orcs within the game, and that makes me concerned that they plan to carry that intent over into setting lore moving forward - which puts aspects of Eberron that I happen to care about on the proverbial chopping block.

I don't need separate half-elf/orc stats in the core rulebooks. I just need a mixed-ancestry system that has substance behind it and doesn't feel like it exists solely to render half-elf/orc characters invisible and irrelevant.

 

[Mistwell]

As someone who is mixed raced, I can say, half-elf was one of my favorite races, but I've always wanted a more expansive racial mixing system. It's really lazy on WotC's part to not provide this when it's 100% possible, and its possible to do in a streamlined way too.

So what's your take on such a system?

 

[Remathilis]

Yeah, that's a problem too if they're going to insist the two books are the same edition without a name change.

Lol. I'm sure people will figure it out between the new origins rules, the added subclasses and spells, level 1 feats and weapon mastery.