D&D 5E Tedium for balance. Should we balance powerful effects with bookkeeping?

[overgeeked]

No. Intentionally making playing the game suck for some people is not a valid means of achieving game balance.

 

[Scribe]

No.

I'd much rather look at what is not, or is not perceived to be balanced, and determine why that feeling exists.

 

[Asisreo]

I don't understand the question. Bookkeeping should occur when maintaining the verisimilitude requires it IMO. It has nothing to do with powerful effects.

So, for a real 5e example:

Plane Shift is a very powerful spell and a highlight of the arcane caster's spell list. However, it does have a material component. While the average group considers the material component as an afterthought from just purchasing the right material from the average shop, the designers clearly consider the material component an actual challenge.

DMG pg 46:

"The plane Shift spell has two important limitations...crafting the fork is expensive (250g), but even the act of researching the spell can lead to adventure. "

By their own admission, matieral components are supposed to be an important limitation. Not only that, but the fork should be crafted and researched.

There are rules for crafting nonmagical items and researching information, but to many players, those rules are simply tedious. As a result, people ignore something the designers intended to be a substantial balance factor.

I'm essentially asking if you think this was a good move by the designers?

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, for a real 5e example:

Plane Shift is a very powerful spell and a highlight of the arcane caster's spell list. However, it does have a material component. While the average group considers the material component as an afterthought from just purchasing the right material from the average shop, the designers clearly consider the material component an actual challenge.

DMG pg 46:

"The plane Shift spell has two important limitations...crafting the fork is expensive (250g), but even the act of researching the spell can lead to adventure. "

By their own admission, matieral components are supposed to be an important limitation. Not only that, but the fork should be crafted and researched.

There are rules for crafting nonmagical items and researching information, but to many players, those rules are simply tedious. As a result, people ignore something the designers intended to be a substantial balance factor.

I'm essentially asking if you think this was a good move by the designers?

Got it. In that case, absolutely. Component pouches were a terrible mistake. The game is deeply enriched by casters actually keeping and using components.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The problem with plane shift, the components and limitations are fine. If the players are initiating the planar journey.
However, if the plot requires planar travel then the components become a nuisance.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I used to think that all powerful abilities should require mastery of a spreadsheet.


But then I met a player who totally got off on it ... and that disturbed me greatly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The problem with plane shift, the components and limitations are fine. If the players are initiating the planar journey.
However, if the plot requires planar travel then the components become a nuisance.

To me it doesn't matter why the spell is being cast.

 

[Leatherhead]

All balance requires bookkeeping. The only question is whom is keeping the books.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

To me it doesn't matter why the spell is being cast.

And?

 

[Micah Sweet]

And?

And so it should have the same requirements no matter what. What did you think I meant?