D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[pemerton]

Remember, only the label matters, right?

If I read a review which said that Fast and Furious 7 is implausible, or silly, or even worthless, because the events make no real sense - fine. Personally I don't agree - I think the parachuting cars scene is pretty awesome - but the criticism makes sense.

But if I read a review that said the problem with the film is that the post suggests somewhat gritty action, but the film was actually about wizards controlling their supernatural cars, and it was clear that this was intended literally rather than as metaphor or irony, I'd think the reviewer had misunderstood the film.

Next you'll be telling me that Die Hard is really a film about a supernatural being, because no human being can do all that stuff!

 

[pemerton]

The cars on F&F do things no car could possibly do. The Dukes of Hazard destroyed hundreds of cars doing their stunts because the vehicles were not drivable after doing the jumps.

Same way that Spider-Man does things not humanly possible which means his abilities are not natural. AKA supernatural:

1. of, relating to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

Hang on, so now you're saying that all D&D fighters are supernatural because they can do things that are unexplainable by natural law - eg withstand being punched by giants and bitten by dragons, kill lions bare-handed, etc?

 

[Oofta]

D&D is also a game of fantastical fiction. It says so right on the box!

I'm not the one trying to say that anything that could potentially happen in the fiction is mundane because I say it is.

 

[Cadence]

I don't think it would feel supernatural at all - why would the supernatural be a component of straight-laced historical fiction? It would just seem poorly written.

Fair enough. My mind is on the detective series I'm reading where the book I just finished started off with an apparent miraculous healing and the follow up pilgrims going to the spot. If they had left it as apparently regularly healing people I would have viewed that as both supernatural and bad writing. (Ngaio Marsh's Inspector Alleyn #23).

So, trying to go back to James Bond and Batman, I guess I'm now mulling through the difference between supernatural, preternatural, super heroic, and silly. In the DC Universe Batman isn't supernatural. In ours he would have to be?. If the world is set up to be like ours and a Batman power level person shows up, is it reasonable that some would go "bad writing" and others would wonder why something "supernatural showed up".

Also , I'm not sure if you're intending to compare D&D - the game in which heroes are inspired by REH's Conan and Merlin and the like - to straight laced historical fiction - but that's not a comparison that I personally would go with.

I was not. Trying to get at frames of reference (is that the right term?).

The idea of goading foes into attacking seems quite consistent with the tone and content of D&D! I mean, REH's Conan survives being crucified in the desert (for weeks, I think it is - the story is A Witch Shall Be Born). That doesn't mean that REH really wrote a story about Wolverine!

Yes. I'm also tempted to Google historical events to see if there are cases the enemy line went down because someone was goaded into doing something stupid. (If nothing else there must be an example in sports where someone got a big penalty for doing something stupid in retaliation for an insult).

 

[pemerton]

I'm also tempted to Google historical events to see if there are cases the enemy line went down because someone was goaded into doing something stupid. (If nothing else there must be an example in sports where someone got a big penalty for doing something stupid in retaliation for an insult).

The bit in brackets is pretty common in Australian Rules Football, and presumably in other contact sports also.

The idea of the line of soldiers - in a shield wall, or holding back a charge or whatever - breaking, because one of them couldn't hold their nerve and so charged or threw a spear or whatever, is one I've seen more than once in films.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yes. I'm also tempted to Google historical events to see if there are cases the enemy line went down because someone was goaded into doing something stupid. (If nothing else there must be an example in sports where someone got a big penalty for doing something stupid in retaliation for an insult).

Wasn't there some Greek or Roman war that started from someone passing wind?

All beans are magic beans!

 

[pemerton]

Anyway, here's an ability that a D&D fighter has: they can roll to hit and then to deal damage, thus potentially killing someone or something.

They can do this even if they are tiny and the something is huge (eg they are going toe-to-toe with a giant, or a dragon). Even if the thing is pounding on them relentlessly (eg a giant with its club, or a dragon with its teeth and claws). Even if they have had to do the same thing 5 times earlier without any rest between bouts.

To me, that means that D&D fighters are supernatural! After all, no one in real life could possibly do such things! It makes no sense at all.

 

[Cadence]

Wasn't there some Greek or Roman war that started from someone passing wind?

All beans are magic beans!

"How a fart killed 10,000 people" about a Roman soldier farting is a thing according to Google!

 

[pemerton]

@Oofta, you posted this on Saturday:

I want my D&D to be reality adjacent, similar to an action movie.

Have you changed your mind?

 

[MichaelSomething]

Matching up with the fiction is more important to me than degree of gamism.

Ever try RiFTs??